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Eruonen
Half-elven
Jul 8 2015, 8:28pm
Post #51 of 67
(474 views)
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This is the section I was referring to in the 3rd link
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"Bard's young son pops up carrying a gigantic metal shaft. With the same bowstring, somehow rigging the two halves of his broken bow and using the boy—absurdly—as an arrow rest, Bard shoots this last shot. Now, the requirement that momentum be conserved means that any given bowstring can propel a lighter arrow faster or a heavier arrow more slowly. Somehow, though, this shaft hurtles with increased force and celerity, and Smaug is Cumberslain. Who knows how the laws of physics were thereby circumvented? Perhaps: magic."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnQBHw3SeTc
Archery: Heavy Arrows and Penetration Depth (Physics)
(This post was edited by Eruonen on Jul 8 2015, 8:36pm)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jul 8 2015, 8:34pm
Post #52 of 67
(471 views)
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In the WETA book, it was said that the shaft was going to be made out of wood, but used Aluminium to get it to look like it wasn't flexing too much, for instance when Bard was running with the arrow. So is it supposed to be wood or metal-shafted?
I'm not sure it makes too much difference, as it is the head that has to initially penetrate, but I think that the shaft in the film was supposed to be iron or steel. I think that the major difference, though, if the shaft was made of wood would be in the over-all weight of the bolt. It was possibly supposed to be wood.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Jul 8 2015, 8:37pm
Post #53 of 67
(471 views)
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There is no physical law that a given bowstring will propel at a given rate with the weight of the arrow as the only relevant variable. The bow, the amount it is drawn, the shape of the arrow etc. etc. are all factors.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jul 8 2015, 8:42pm
Post #54 of 67
(461 views)
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I missed that link in my first pass at the post.
If we look at the scene with Bard using Bain to steady the arrow in terms of epic story-telling in the tradition of The Odyssey or Beowulf then it works (leaving aside the construction of the jury-rigged bow itself). Maybe Bain would have been injured, but welts and cuts heal; they are better than death by dragon-fire.
For the record, I am increasingly of the view that the shaft of the Black Arrow may have been wooden.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jul 8 2015, 8:44pm)
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Eruonen
Half-elven
Jul 8 2015, 8:45pm
Post #55 of 67
(455 views)
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Right, and that is the issue for me when the belief is shattered.
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Eruonen
Half-elven
Jul 8 2015, 8:47pm
Post #56 of 67
(453 views)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnQBHw3SeTc
Archery: Heavy Arrows and Penetration Depth (Physics)
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Jul 8 2015, 8:53pm
Post #57 of 67
(448 views)
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How does that relate to the chap's statement?
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Eruonen
Half-elven
Jul 8 2015, 9:09pm
Post #58 of 67
(438 views)
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Just a discussion of the various physics factors that go into arrow performance.
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Weta indicates the Black Arrow was black iron.
https://www.wetanz.com/the-black-arrow/
"Only one of the city's wind lances would loose its black iron bolts at the Dragon."
75.2" x 4.7" x 4.7" (H x W x D)....the arrow is over 6 ' 3" long....
191 cm x 12 cm x 12 cm
(This post was edited by Eruonen on Jul 8 2015, 9:10pm)
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Jul 8 2015, 9:18pm
Post #59 of 67
(432 views)
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I thought you were posting it to support the reviewer's statement (which is definitely incorrect) by perhaps I had the wrong end of the stick?
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Eruonen
Half-elven
Jul 8 2015, 9:21pm
Post #60 of 67
(431 views)
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Which statement is wrong? You mean the bowstring and draw?
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Of course, the draw is key....I think he means that but said bowstring propelling....(after release).
What is the necessary draw for a 6' iron bolt that weighs 3-7 lbs?
(This post was edited by Eruonen on Jul 8 2015, 9:24pm)
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Jul 8 2015, 9:24pm
Post #61 of 67
(428 views)
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"Any given bowstring..." Etc.
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Bombadil
Half-elven
Jul 9 2015, 1:25pm
Post #62 of 67
(407 views)
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1. Tauriel emerges as the ONLY Heroine in the whole
Trilogy, { other than Galaldreil} by leading the escape boat in Bard's absence.
THAT was great to see her & Jimmy's daughters together!
AND the Size difference between her & the Laketown 4 was again, seamless.
2. The Masters escape was really wonderfully played... especially
with Stephen Frye pushing Alfrid overboard..Quite funny!
..But? really important to show that no matter how big a Sleaze-ball Afrid is...
the Master, is a Master Slease-BALL?.
3. The escape from Jail by Bard was quite satisfying since, his Worst enemy,
accidentally? provided the means of escape {AWESOME}
That was a super-Creative little play, within the Larger 10 minutes...
4. The Colors of the book chapter "Fire & Water"
was as if PJ truly saw the possibilities of Tolkien's writings.
We didn't get much color other than the Flames reflected by the Lake.
The town's People are all dressed in dirty Browns.
Hats off! to the Costume designers for that.
5. The variety of different ethnic groups implied the Trading Center's
Crossroads from people we have yet to meet from the Sea of Rhun,
or Dorwinin? in the South, etc.
That shows that this is a TOTAL
Economic Collapse of the whole
Eastern part of MiddleEARTH, which
Even
Effects the
Elves
of Mirkwood, & the unseen Dwaves of the Iron Hills.
6. Having Bard being the ONLY Resistance? was much more dramatic
than the way it was written in the Book, since many Archers fought
"Mister Magnificent"...according to Tolkien.
7. "The Golden Goose" that the Master needed packed First was
quite a nice symbol, in a Literary sense.
It's the First shot of his Horde.
8. "I'm Evacuating myself here.." {Bomby HAD to Laugh out loud}
There are many fun, examples of "PJ playing with the Story"
Highlighting his really playful mind, there, since within this
Tragedy.. PJ can still pull off GREAT
Comedy...
Any others you can think of?
www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"
(This post was edited by Bombadil on Jul 9 2015, 1:35pm)
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Elarie
Grey Havens
Jul 9 2015, 1:38pm
Post #63 of 67
(394 views)
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A little off topic, but your mention of Tauriel just reminded me - I was watching DOS yesterday and I noticed for the first time that Tauriel shoots her bow both right-handed and left-handed during the barrel escape scene. Probably other people have already discussed this but I missed it, maybe? Anyway, I thought it was interesting and I've never heard it mentioned, at least that I can recall. She really is quite the multi-talented heroine! 
__________________
Gold is the strife of kinsmen,
and fire of the flood-tide,
and the path of the serpent.
(Old Icelandic Fe rune poem)
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Jul 9 2015, 2:22pm
Post #64 of 67
(384 views)
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When Thorin leads the charge out of Erebor, his shield is on his left arm and sword held in his right hand. But then he does this really cool spinny move, where he uses the shield as a weapon - and suddenly it's on his RIGHT arm! I've watched it over and over again (trying to make a GIF out of it), just to make sure I wasn't seeing things! So, either they occasionally use reverse images, or Tauriel isn't the only ambidextrous being in Middle-earth.
Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Jul 9 2015, 2:30pm
Post #65 of 67
(383 views)
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I'm not too sure why you've answered me with this, since I was expressing admiration for the Smaug/Bard sequence (the Great Fire, the way Smaug is depicted, the showdown between Bard and Smaug, notwithstanding 'errors' with bow, etc.) at the beginning of the final film.
Just to be clear, I am certainly not hoping for more Tauriel (or screaming brats, for that matter). I also don't think PJ can pull off 'great comedy'. Comedy (consisting largely of crass toilet humour, slobber and so on) is not his strong point in my view – unless, of course, someone finds that sort of thing amusing or is wedded to absolutely everything the man produces and admits no criticism of his work.
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Bombadil
Half-elven
Jul 9 2015, 3:36pm
Post #66 of 67
(358 views)
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responding to the Entire thread..
No one... writer in Particular...
No one... had written anything for many hours
SSOo..as OP? just wanted to keep the
Laketown/Smaug thread going....
No one... should ever Fear "Mostly Harmless" Bomby
www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Jul 9 2015, 3:50pm
Post #67 of 67
(354 views)
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I see what you did…and who you are.
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