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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Would you agree that the First 10 Minutes of BOT5A
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Bombadil
Half-elven


Jul 6 2015, 3:44pm

Post #1 of 67 (2666 views)
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Would you agree that the First 10 Minutes of BOT5A Can't Post

is some of PJ's
Finest Film-making?

Many additional elements were added to
the BOOK Storyline of Smaug & Laketown
for
Crazy GOOD Film-Making..

Bain rescuing his DAD with the Black Arrow
was an amazing bit of Imagination..!

Using his Son's Shoulder to place the Arrow in the right spot?

Having Smaug Crush the Master was... Brilliant Revenge..
There are many more elements..

What are your favorites?
bom

Crazy

www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"


Shagrat
Gondor

Jul 6 2015, 4:17pm

Post #2 of 67 (2509 views)
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No [In reply to] Can't Post

Simply because using Bain as a prop was idiotic and completely out of character for Bard. I also can't help but laugh at this scene every time I see it, such is the absurdity of it all. I know some find it emotional but it doesn't work at all for me.


Smaug the iron
Gondor

Jul 6 2015, 4:26pm

Post #3 of 67 (2498 views)
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Yes [In reply to] Can't Post

One of the best scene in the film.


priell3
Lorien


Jul 6 2015, 4:27pm

Post #4 of 67 (2489 views)
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I do not agree. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

MikeP


Avandel
Half-elven


Jul 6 2015, 4:42pm

Post #5 of 67 (2482 views)
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Yes! One of my favorite sections [In reply to] Can't Post

IMO so magnificently done - every frame of Smaug is AMAZING, every move - IMO the brilliance of PJ's camera/framing choices, as when we see Smaug's foot come down through all those flames and simply crush a burning building, and his almost cobra-like movement when his tongue flicks out...every expression and the mocking voice....HeartHeartHeart Even Smaug's death is brilliant, as we see his eyes fade, and he falls with such powerful grace (I miss Smaug, LOLCool)

And it's always struck me Bain's look of trust as he listens to his father. IMO one of Luke Evan's finest BOFA moments.Heart

I don't care about the "realism" that the arrow would have taken Bain's face offCool - IMO it was imaginative and wonderful and I just love this whole hero sequence - also when Bard runs out of arrows - great acting.

IMO fabulous work with the fire, the cinders, all of it! Love the whole Laketown sequence.
HeartHeartHeartHeartHeart


Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor


Jul 6 2015, 5:26pm

Post #6 of 67 (2438 views)
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Yes to Smaug [In reply to] Can't Post

IMO, the first 10 minutes was worth the cost of admission alone! When Smaug flew over Bard's head, the look on his face, I mean, YES, that was brilliant! Plus the boats attempting to escape, the collision with the Master's barge, and of course Smaug falling on said barge, was all great. I even liked the cutaway to Erebor, it tied in quite well.

However, I gotta agree with everyone who rejects the idea of using Bain to help fire the arrow - yeah, that was just bad. In fact, that whole jury-rigging of a broken bow just wouldn't work, and one doesn't need to be heavily into archery to figure that out. The only really bad spot in an otherwise fantasic piece of cinematography, and not enough to ruin the scene for me. As in other places in this film, the good stuff far outweighs the bad IMO.

Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jul 6 2015, 6:00pm

Post #7 of 67 (2411 views)
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This calls for MythBusters! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I don't care about the "realism" that the arrow would have taken Bain's face offCool - IMO it was imaginative and wonderful and I just love this whole hero sequence - also when Bard runs out of arrows - great acting.


If any scene in the Hobbit trilogy demands to be tested on MythBusters, it's this one! I don't know about the feathering on the bolt gouging Bain's shoulder, but I don't think that Bard's MacGyvered ballista would provide enough force to hurt Smaug.

"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jul 6 2015, 6:00pm)


Bofur01
Lorien


Jul 6 2015, 6:15pm

Post #8 of 67 (2395 views)
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Yeah, it's a feather... [In reply to] Can't Post

Ever fired a bow and had the feathers "gouge" your hand? It really doesn't hurt in the slightest. And, as in real archery, the string wouldn't have hit Bain, as the string doesn't follow through too much.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jul 6 2015, 6:18pm

Post #9 of 67 (2393 views)
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Well... [In reply to] Can't Post

The feathering on the Black Arrow is probably laminated and might not be actual feathers (feathers were not used on the prop). I don't know if that would make a big difference.

"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock


Bofur01
Lorien


Jul 6 2015, 6:27pm

Post #10 of 67 (2387 views)
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They are supposed to be feathers, but none big enough could be found [In reply to] Can't Post

See here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/128405157@N03/16096370241/


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jul 6 2015, 6:30pm

Post #11 of 67 (2381 views)
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Thanks. [In reply to] Can't Post

Yep. I knew the story from the Hobbit Chronicles volumes.

"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock


Eruonen
Half-elven


Jul 6 2015, 6:37pm

Post #12 of 67 (2376 views)
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A trial of a recreated windlance [In reply to] Can't Post

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zDlA4T_TeY part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ool1i98Z_J0 part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQZsxj0Yris part 3

His laugh is very...unique.


Bombadil
Half-elven


Jul 6 2015, 7:49pm

Post #13 of 67 (2318 views)
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GREAT FIND...HE's WayCOOL [In reply to] Can't Post

Maybe, German or DUTCH..?

1. BUT he forgot that the TIP is
Spinning
SSOoo..like a Drill Bit it tore up
Smaug....

2.. Let' Not Forget that John Howe did a lot of Research.

3... & Designed The Windlance & he has been recognized by Experts
as an Expert in Medieval Weapons for many years.

4.... It would help if John Howe would explain this...

5..... Also, THE SHOT heard around the World of MiddleEARTH
was @ very CLOSE Range..maybe a hundred meters..?

Bom's personal opinion is that Bain"s Jacket
& hair kept him from harm..

...Can't wait to see the Longer version of this INCREDIBLE Scene.
Crazy

www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jul 6 2015, 8:25pm

Post #14 of 67 (2294 views)
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Proof-of-concept. [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, we can probably see those videos as proof-of-concept for the windlance. However, it does not count as a test of Bard's jury-rigged crossbow. Come to think of it, I would also love to see the windlance recreated on MythBusters! Cool

"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock


Eruonen
Half-elven


Jul 6 2015, 8:30pm

Post #15 of 67 (2288 views)
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I agree, the jury rigged-bow just does not look possible as the windlance [In reply to] Can't Post

required pulleys/or tension twisted sinew to launch the bolt while we are to believe Bard could pull on the string and launch it....it would have gone 3' and fallen.


(This post was edited by Eruonen on Jul 6 2015, 8:31pm)


Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor


Jul 6 2015, 9:01pm

Post #16 of 67 (2254 views)
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Not the jury-rigged number [In reply to] Can't Post

Especially after this demo - I never thought about the four arms before, which means 2 bowstrings instead of 1. And then just jamming broken pieces of bow into some pillar and expect that to be stable enough? And I haven't even gotten to the drag that Bain's fur collar must have created. I assume that the groove the black arrow was placed in would be real smooth for that very reason - but maybe I'm overanalyzing this scene.

OTOH, maybe this guy is Ori's great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandson, LOL! "You mock the slingshot, but I survived the battle!"Laugh (Quote from Adam to Dean.)

Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association


Spriggan
Tol Eressea

Jul 6 2015, 10:13pm

Post #17 of 67 (2228 views)
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I wouldn't want to have to build one [In reply to] Can't Post

But I don't think the friction of Bain's collar would be a worry if an arrow of that size were launched with anything like the power suggested!

On the posts, Bard is shown to insert the the bow fragments into pre-existing holes. Now of course there is much good fortune in such holes being there and being of the right size and so forth, but it is a different picture to just bashing one piece of wood against another.


Bombadil
Half-elven


Jul 6 2015, 11:18pm

Post #18 of 67 (2196 views)
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Didn't Bard use the Structural Strenght [In reply to] Can't Post

of the Tower & NOT Bain?

Bain was there to Hide the Arrow from Smaug.?

Must look @ it again..

www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"


Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor


Jul 6 2015, 11:48pm

Post #19 of 67 (2182 views)
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pre-existing holes [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
But I don't think the friction of Bain's collar would be a worry if an arrow of that size were launched with anything like the power suggested!

On the posts, Bard is shown to insert the the bow fragments into pre-existing holes. Now of course there is much good fortune in such holes being there and being of the right size and so forth, but it is a different picture to just bashing one piece of wood against another.


Well I never saw such holes, I'll have to look for that. But as you said, that's awfully convenient, and then there's the question of how the bow pieces stayed in the holes when Bard was pulling on them. I think we're both in agreement that the whole scenario is a little far-fetched.

Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association


Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor


Jul 6 2015, 11:50pm

Post #20 of 67 (2180 views)
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No, the arrow was on Bain's shoulder [In reply to] Can't Post

Besides, Smaug already knew about it - he said "now that's a pity, what will you do now, Bowman?"

Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association


CathrineB
Rohan


Jul 6 2015, 11:59pm

Post #21 of 67 (2180 views)
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Sure [In reply to] Can't Post

Wouldn't go so far and say it's the finest he's done, but it's up there. Could have been longer.

What makes that scene for me is that moment of amazing music when Bard draws the arrow and it's so beautiful and dramatic while the city burns and falls apart all around them. With Smaug's voice sounding so terrifying. I love that part.


Avandel
Half-elven


Jul 7 2015, 2:34am

Post #22 of 67 (2136 views)
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Multiplication of force? [In reply to] Can't Post

Because Bard was aiming for the scaleless part, and putting his whole body into the draw - and the arrow is going toward Smaug while Smaug is throwing himself forward - and we see Bard wait.

But, sure, this is one for testing! And just sayin', you can still see the arrow in Smaug as he falls - every little detailHeartHeartHeart


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jul 7 2015, 3:30am

Post #23 of 67 (2125 views)
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Sure. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
But, sure, this is one for testing! And just sayin', you can still see the arrow in Smaug as he falls - every little detailHeartHeartHeart


Yes. However, I'd say that this is more 'movie magic' than anything that might happen in real life. But there is only one way to be sure! "Failure is always an option!" as Adam Savage would say.

"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jul 7 2015, 3:32am

Post #24 of 67 (2126 views)
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Actually... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Bain was there to Hide the Arrow from Smaug.?


Not to hide the bolt, but to steady it. Bain's presence wouldn't have added any force to the projectile. As silly as the whole scenario seems when you actually think about it, it does look great while watching the movie.

"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jul 7 2015, 3:34am)


Milieuterrien
Rohan

Jul 7 2015, 6:50am

Post #25 of 67 (2074 views)
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Pre-existing holes [In reply to] Can't Post

may have been carved by Bard himself, if he kept the project to kill Smaug whatever could happen to the official windlance.
As we know, Smaug was aware of the danger and destroyed the windlance as soon as he came.
Bard could anticipate that and prepare a second chance on another tower, a plan which worked.

Bard had also a very long bow, and he knew that if using it with the black arrow, he might need something to hold the bow and thus giving him full force (two hands) to stretch the string. So he might have carved the holes and his own bow at the right size

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