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Bombadil
Half-elven
Jul 6 2015, 3:44pm
Post #1 of 67
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Would you agree that the First 10 Minutes of BOT5A
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is some of PJ's Finest Film-making? Many additional elements were added to the BOOK Storyline of Smaug & Laketown for Crazy GOOD Film-Making.. Bain rescuing his DAD with the Black Arrow was an amazing bit of Imagination..! Using his Son's Shoulder to place the Arrow in the right spot? Having Smaug Crush the Master was... Brilliant Revenge.. There are many more elements.. What are your favorites? bom
www.charlie-art.biz "What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"
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Shagrat
Gondor
Jul 6 2015, 4:17pm
Post #2 of 67
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Simply because using Bain as a prop was idiotic and completely out of character for Bard. I also can't help but laugh at this scene every time I see it, such is the absurdity of it all. I know some find it emotional but it doesn't work at all for me.
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Smaug the iron
Gondor
Jul 6 2015, 4:26pm
Post #3 of 67
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One of the best scene in the film.
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priell3
Lorien
Jul 6 2015, 4:27pm
Post #4 of 67
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MikeP
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Avandel
Half-elven
Jul 6 2015, 4:42pm
Post #5 of 67
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Yes! One of my favorite sections
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IMO so magnificently done - every frame of Smaug is AMAZING, every move - IMO the brilliance of PJ's camera/framing choices, as when we see Smaug's foot come down through all those flames and simply crush a burning building, and his almost cobra-like movement when his tongue flicks out...every expression and the mocking voice.... Even Smaug's death is brilliant, as we see his eyes fade, and he falls with such powerful grace (I miss Smaug, LOL) And it's always struck me Bain's look of trust as he listens to his father. IMO one of Luke Evan's finest BOFA moments. I don't care about the "realism" that the arrow would have taken Bain's face off - IMO it was imaginative and wonderful and I just love this whole hero sequence - also when Bard runs out of arrows - great acting. IMO fabulous work with the fire, the cinders, all of it! Love the whole Laketown sequence.
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Jul 6 2015, 5:26pm
Post #6 of 67
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IMO, the first 10 minutes was worth the cost of admission alone! When Smaug flew over Bard's head, the look on his face, I mean, YES, that was brilliant! Plus the boats attempting to escape, the collision with the Master's barge, and of course Smaug falling on said barge, was all great. I even liked the cutaway to Erebor, it tied in quite well. However, I gotta agree with everyone who rejects the idea of using Bain to help fire the arrow - yeah, that was just bad. In fact, that whole jury-rigging of a broken bow just wouldn't work, and one doesn't need to be heavily into archery to figure that out. The only really bad spot in an otherwise fantasic piece of cinematography, and not enough to ruin the scene for me. As in other places in this film, the good stuff far outweighs the bad IMO.
Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jul 6 2015, 6:00pm
Post #7 of 67
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I don't care about the "realism" that the arrow would have taken Bain's face off - IMO it was imaginative and wonderful and I just love this whole hero sequence - also when Bard runs out of arrows - great acting. If any scene in the Hobbit trilogy demands to be tested on MythBusters, it's this one! I don't know about the feathering on the bolt gouging Bain's shoulder, but I don't think that Bard's MacGyvered ballista would provide enough force to hurt Smaug.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jul 6 2015, 6:00pm)
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Bofur01
Lorien
Jul 6 2015, 6:15pm
Post #8 of 67
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Ever fired a bow and had the feathers "gouge" your hand? It really doesn't hurt in the slightest. And, as in real archery, the string wouldn't have hit Bain, as the string doesn't follow through too much.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jul 6 2015, 6:18pm
Post #9 of 67
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The feathering on the Black Arrow is probably laminated and might not be actual feathers (feathers were not used on the prop). I don't know if that would make a big difference.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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Bofur01
Lorien
Jul 6 2015, 6:27pm
Post #10 of 67
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They are supposed to be feathers, but none big enough could be found
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See here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/128405157@N03/16096370241/
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jul 6 2015, 6:30pm
Post #11 of 67
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Yep. I knew the story from the Hobbit Chronicles volumes.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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Bombadil
Half-elven
Jul 6 2015, 7:49pm
Post #13 of 67
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Maybe, German or DUTCH..? 1. BUT he forgot that the TIP is Spinning SSOoo..like a Drill Bit it tore up Smaug.... 2.. Let' Not Forget that John Howe did a lot of Research. 3... & Designed The Windlance & he has been recognized by Experts as an Expert in Medieval Weapons for many years. 4.... It would help if John Howe would explain this... 5..... Also, THE SHOT heard around the World of MiddleEARTH was @ very CLOSE Range..maybe a hundred meters..? Bom's personal opinion is that Bain"s Jacket & hair kept him from harm.. ...Can't wait to see the Longer version of this INCREDIBLE Scene.
www.charlie-art.biz "What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jul 6 2015, 8:25pm
Post #14 of 67
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Well, we can probably see those videos as proof-of-concept for the windlance. However, it does not count as a test of Bard's jury-rigged crossbow. Come to think of it, I would also love to see the windlance recreated on MythBusters!
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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Eruonen
Half-elven
Jul 6 2015, 8:30pm
Post #15 of 67
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I agree, the jury rigged-bow just does not look possible as the windlance
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required pulleys/or tension twisted sinew to launch the bolt while we are to believe Bard could pull on the string and launch it....it would have gone 3' and fallen.
(This post was edited by Eruonen on Jul 6 2015, 8:31pm)
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Jul 6 2015, 9:01pm
Post #16 of 67
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Especially after this demo - I never thought about the four arms before, which means 2 bowstrings instead of 1. And then just jamming broken pieces of bow into some pillar and expect that to be stable enough? And I haven't even gotten to the drag that Bain's fur collar must have created. I assume that the groove the black arrow was placed in would be real smooth for that very reason - but maybe I'm overanalyzing this scene. OTOH, maybe this guy is Ori's great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandson, LOL! "You mock the slingshot, but I survived the battle!" (Quote from Adam to Dean.)
Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Jul 6 2015, 10:13pm
Post #17 of 67
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I wouldn't want to have to build one
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But I don't think the friction of Bain's collar would be a worry if an arrow of that size were launched with anything like the power suggested! On the posts, Bard is shown to insert the the bow fragments into pre-existing holes. Now of course there is much good fortune in such holes being there and being of the right size and so forth, but it is a different picture to just bashing one piece of wood against another.
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Bombadil
Half-elven
Jul 6 2015, 11:18pm
Post #18 of 67
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Didn't Bard use the Structural Strenght
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of the Tower & NOT Bain? Bain was there to Hide the Arrow from Smaug.? Must look @ it again..
www.charlie-art.biz "What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Jul 6 2015, 11:48pm
Post #19 of 67
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But I don't think the friction of Bain's collar would be a worry if an arrow of that size were launched with anything like the power suggested! On the posts, Bard is shown to insert the the bow fragments into pre-existing holes. Now of course there is much good fortune in such holes being there and being of the right size and so forth, but it is a different picture to just bashing one piece of wood against another. Well I never saw such holes, I'll have to look for that. But as you said, that's awfully convenient, and then there's the question of how the bow pieces stayed in the holes when Bard was pulling on them. I think we're both in agreement that the whole scenario is a little far-fetched.
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Jul 6 2015, 11:50pm
Post #20 of 67
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No, the arrow was on Bain's shoulder
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Besides, Smaug already knew about it - he said "now that's a pity, what will you do now, Bowman?"
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CathrineB
Rohan
Jul 6 2015, 11:59pm
Post #21 of 67
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Wouldn't go so far and say it's the finest he's done, but it's up there. Could have been longer. What makes that scene for me is that moment of amazing music when Bard draws the arrow and it's so beautiful and dramatic while the city burns and falls apart all around them. With Smaug's voice sounding so terrifying. I love that part.
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Avandel
Half-elven
Jul 7 2015, 2:34am
Post #22 of 67
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Because Bard was aiming for the scaleless part, and putting his whole body into the draw - and the arrow is going toward Smaug while Smaug is throwing himself forward - and we see Bard wait. But, sure, this is one for testing! And just sayin', you can still see the arrow in Smaug as he falls - every little detail
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jul 7 2015, 3:30am
Post #23 of 67
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Yes. However, I'd say that this is more 'movie magic' than anything that might happen in real life. But there is only one way to be sure! "Failure is always an option!" as Adam Savage would say.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jul 7 2015, 3:32am
Post #24 of 67
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Bain was there to Hide the Arrow from Smaug.? Not to hide the bolt, but to steady it. Bain's presence wouldn't have added any force to the projectile. As silly as the whole scenario seems when you actually think about it, it does look great while watching the movie.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jul 7 2015, 3:34am)
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Milieuterrien
Rohan
Jul 7 2015, 6:50am
Post #25 of 67
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may have been carved by Bard himself, if he kept the project to kill Smaug whatever could happen to the official windlance. As we know, Smaug was aware of the danger and destroyed the windlance as soon as he came. Bard could anticipate that and prepare a second chance on another tower, a plan which worked. Bard had also a very long bow, and he knew that if using it with the black arrow, he might need something to hold the bow and thus giving him full force (two hands) to stretch the string. So he might have carved the holes and his own bow at the right size
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