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Dân o’Nandor-on-Anduin
Rivendell
Jun 24 2015, 11:02am
Post #1 of 9
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The Arda 300: #'s 100-81
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We’re now in the Top 100 characters of the Legendarium; and I have no doubt those that remain are the Giants of Arda. The accompanying secondary list I hope also approaches its respective top-100. Also, Arvedui, Barahir, & Tulkas (#’s 101-99) were the last characters to be in a 3-way tie, and were ranked according to their number of indexed pages, as I’ve been doing all along. As there are only a half-dozen or so characters left in 2-way ties, and the separation in points is becoming substantially larger, I’ll be ceasing to note the # of indexed pages. Ties will be arranged by the most points from adding those sources that produced the indexed pages. Plus, points from UT & HoMe will be combined from here on in (UT/HM), as will LotR, Silm, & CoH (LR/SL/CH). Enjoy!
#100 Barahir, 7th Lord of the First House of the Edain – 1st-house adan lord
[TG:42,EoA:20,Wik:11,RF:10,JT:13,MD:1,DK:1,LR/SL/CH:10,UT/HM:56=164pts,172indx.pgs]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Barahir
He was the father of Beren One-Hand, leader of his band of outlaws, and, oh yeah, had a Ring that survived as an heirloom to Aragorn..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qdpWykfMnk
#99 Tulkas Astaldo, the Valiant – vala champion
[TG:41,EoA:4,Wik:6,RF:17,JT:11,DD:15,MD:3,DK:1,JG:2,LR/SL/CH:4,UT/HM:58,HoF+:2=164pts,193indx.pgs]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Tulkas_Astaldo
He was the last of the Valar to appear in Arda, and is also the last non-Aratar Vala to appear on this list.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBUJztI884M
#98 Nienna, Mistress of Tears – vala queen
[TG:36,EoA:23,Wik:19,RF:14,JT:9,DD:9,MD:4,DK:1,JG:1.LR/SL/CH:3,UT/HM:46=165pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Nienna
The sister of the Fëanturi is the first to appear of the Aratar, the most exclusive club in Arda. Having said that, all 9 members of the Fellowship, all 3 Elf Ambassadors, as well as the entire immediate families of Thingol and Húrin Thalion have yet to appear – exclusive clubs in themselves! (This mistress of grief & sorrow, is also acquainted with pity & courage, and was the teacher of Gandalf, no less: sing for the laughter, sing for the tears…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_3l7H0wSXQ
#97 Gloin, father of Gimli, and companion of Thorin Oakenshiel – dwarf adventurer
[TG:87,EoA:2,Wik:3,RF:9,JT:6,DD:20,MD:3,JR:17,LR/SL/CH:3,Let:1,UT/HM:18=169pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Gloin
6 dwarves make the top-100. Gloin’s son will appear much nearer the top, likewise for the next dwarf appearing below. (This could have been sung for all of Thorin’s companions, but of course literally only applies to Balin and Thorin himself: of mountain-tops, rooftops, egos, & break-ups…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqPmOhvbi_A
#96 Caranthir the Dark, 4th son of Fëanor – noldo prince
[TG:38,EoA:3,Wik:9,RF:19,JT:56,MD:1,DK:2,LR/SL/CH:4,UT/HM:38=170pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Caranthir
The 2 Elves with the epithet of ‘the Dark’, appear here back to back. (If Caranthir had the opportunity to dance with his mother Nerdanel late in life, he may not have been so dark…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlvjznOEWjk
#95 Eöl, the Dark Elf – sinda smith/inventor
[TG:39,EoA:28,Wik:25,RF:19,JT:35,JR:1,LR/SL/CH:8,UT/HM:16=171pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Eol
Like Húrin & Thingol, the immediate family of Eöl all make the top-100, although none near the top. Forging Anglachel would have to be at the top of his (mainly notorious) claims to fame. (He took whatever he wanted, including Aredhel…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HF3LnTkiWxY
#94 Olwë, 2nd King of the Teleri – falmari king
[TG:32,EoA:12,Wik:6,RF:8,JT:36,DD:13,DK:2,LR/SL/CH:4,UT/HM:59=172pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Olw%C3%AB
With the exception of Tulkas, everyone in this batch of 10 have one or more family members that will yet appear. (Though Olwë waited as long as he could for his brother, he could hear the ocean’s roar, and had no time to pack his bags…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqgyD_yTWCU
#93 Thrain II, father of Thorin Oakenshield – dwarf king
[TG:54,EoA:2,Wik:12,RF:11,JT:26,DD:27,MD:4,JR:14,LR/SL/CH:2,UT/HM:20=172pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Thrain_II
Thrain’s life was certainly one filled with anger, struggle, and righteous cause. Unfortunate was his fate, but his claim to fame is of course passing on the map & key to Gandalf.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR9JMwzxybE
#92 Laurelin the Golden, younger of the Two Trees of Valinor (n) – tree
[TG:18,EoA:4,Wik:4,RF:11,JT:20,MD:5,DK:3,JR:2,LR/SL/CH:5,UT/HM:102=174pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Laurelin
I have one last disclaimer: while we’re done with handbags, statues, mountains, & swords, and all other entities of questionable sentience; 2 trees still appear. They, of course, being the Two Trees of Valinor! However, their scores only reflect references to their individual identities, as all indexed references to the ‘Two Trees of Valinor’ were discounted. Arien the Maia, Mistress of the Sun was back at #147, but the Sun itself will not appear on this list, though it was a fruit of Laurelin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Nnl1LhJj78
#91 Goldberry the River-daughter, wife of Tom Bombadil (f) – water-spirit?
[TG:36,EoA:12,Wik:4,RF:7,JT:2,MD:88,DD:18,HC:1,LR/SL/CH:4,Let:1,UT/HM:2,HoF+:3=178pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Goldberry
Nearly half her points come from her being the 2nd character to appear on the list with an entry devoted to herself in Drout’s Encyclopedia, the 1st being Old Man Willow. (She is certainly the ‘ground control’ to the spacey Master Tom…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LVC9eW9Q4E
#90 Finduilas, Princess of Nargothrond (f) – noldo princess
[TG:27,EoA:9,Wik:22,RF:17,JT:22,DD:16,MD:1,DK:1,JG:1,LR/SL/CH:7,HM/UT:56=179pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/...uilas_of_Nargothrond
I’ve said it many times, but characters in the story of Túrin do well on this list primarily because it was a story that meant the most to Tolkien, as far as the number of times he rewrote it, culminating in CT’s Children of Húrin. (This song is of course from the perspective of Gwindor…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw18eQxsT_M
#89 Dain II Ironfoot, Lord of the Iron Hills & King Under the Mountain – dwarf king
[TG:79,EoA:3,Wik:11,RF:14,JT:23,DD:19,MD:1,JR:15,LR/SL/CH:3,UT/HM:14=182pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Dain_II_Ironfoot
Jackson probably bumped him up a few notches, via Tolkien Gateway, but he still gets the requisite points from the mainstays on the list, especially Rateliff, Day, Foster & Tyler. Whether he’s deserving of the #4 Dwarf on this list is of course open to debate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wEADoybjfk
#88 Huor, brother of Húrin & father of Tuor – 3rd house adan soldier
[TG:44,EoA:32,Wik:11,RF:16,JT:8,DK:3,LR/SL/CH:8,UT/HM:43,HoF+:20=185pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Huor
What can be said of Huor, other than he fought the good fight, and fathered one of the greatest of men…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjOQBQjUnPY
#87 Dior Eluchil, 2nd King of Doriath – sinda king
[TG:34,EoA:9,Wik:7,RF:19,JT:26,DD:24,MD:1,DK:3,LR/SL/CH:11,Let:1,UT/HM:52=187pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Dior_Eluchil
His place is certainly secure due to circumstance and lineage, but his life was brief; Doriath during his kingship being on the eve of destruction…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3VcFC9ZCV0
#86 Idril Celebrindal, Princess of Gondolin (f) – noldo princess
[TG:29,Wik:3,HC:9,RF:20,JT:14,MD:4,DK:3,JR:1,JG:1,LR/SL/CoH:8,Let:1,UT/HM:94=187pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Idril_Celebrindal
The mother of Eärendil probably deserves to rank even higher. She saw the building of the tunnel out of Gondolin; she married Tuor, lived at the Havens, and her fate is said to be that she & Tuor eventually passed into Aman. Whether she was the Sleeper-in-the-Tower-of-Pearl is another debate, but she certainly displayed magic at every turn…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aENX1Sf3fgQ
#85 Beorn, bee-keeper of the Carrock – northman werebear
[TG:56,EoA:12,Wik:11,RF:8,JT:17,MD:41,DD:20,JR:10,LR/SL/CH:1,Let:1,UT/HM:8,HoF+:3=188pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Beorn
He’s a Hobbit character, who principally relies on Tolkien Gateway, Rateliff, Day, and Drout’s entry by John Walsh to supply his points. But it would be a shame if he didn’t make the top-100, animal that he was...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vstNm5xzuKM
#84 Orodreth/Arothir, 2nd King of Nargothrond – noldo king
[TG:39,EoA:22,Wik:13,RF:26,JT:22,DK:2,LR/SL/CH:8,UT/HM:58=190pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/...dreth_of_Nargothrond
The reason Tolkien Gateway is given a large percentage of the points on this list can be seen right here with Orodreth. His entry begins that he was the son of Angrod, in rightful contrast to CT’s Sil; but TG always gives the history of all versions. (And since his real name is Arothir…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXcasFsWfEU
#83 Elros Tar-Minyatur, 1st King of Númenor – númenórean king
[TG:53,EoA:7,Wik:10,RF:14,JT:10,MD:2,DD:30,LR/SL/CH:11,Let:1,UT/HM:53=191pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Elros_Tar-Minyatur
The brother of Elrond chose the fate of Men…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt8EbgqxOy8
#82 Míriel Serindë, 1st wife of Finwë and mother of Fëanor (f) – noldo queen
[TG:44:,EoA:2,Wik:5,RF:8,JT:17,MD:20,DK:6,LR/SL/CH:3,Let:1,UT/HM:26,HoF+:60=192pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Miriel_Serinde
Little is said about Fëanor and the absence of his mother in all his ensuing deeds, except for that said by Míriel herself upon her deathbed. Could a case be made that he always resented her fateful decision?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqLjhuHlij8
#81 Durin’s Bane, the Balrog of Moria – maia balrog
[TG:76,EoA:37,Wik:44,RF:3,JT:2,MD:2,JR:2,LR/SL/CH:9,Let:1,UT/HM:10,HoF+:7=193pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Durin%27s_Bane
The percentage of points he gets from the 3 online sources is large, but they offset the few points he gets from traditional sources. (I have to go with 2 song entries here, the second a tribute to the facilitator of this list…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1smfdddO9SA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrwJVaE5ugc
glossary:
*=as in CT's indexing in UT (ie. characters not appearing in Hobbit/LotR/AdvTB/Sil)
@=guest at Bilbo’s Farewell Party
(f)=female (n)=neutral
POINTS: TG=Tolkien Gateway,EoA=Encyclopedia of Arda,Wik=Wikipedia,RF=Robert Foster’s Complete Guide to Middle-earth,JT=J.E.A. Tyler’s Tolkien Companion,DD=David Day’s A-Z of Tolkien,HC=Humphrey Carpenter’s Biography,JG=John Garth’s Tolkien and the Great War,JR=John Rateliff’s History of The Hobbit,DK=Douglas Kane’s Arda Reconstructed,MD=Michael Drout’s Tolkien Encyclopedia,Let=Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien,LR/SL/CH=Lord of the Rings, Silmarillion, Children of Hurin,UT/HM=Unfinished Tales, History of Middle-earth,HoF+=votes from the Hall of Fire thread that initiated this project + a composite of selected favourite character lists.
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sador
Half-elven
Jun 28 2015, 4:30pm
Post #2 of 9
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100 Barahir, 7th Lord of the First House of the Edain
That was a nice song indeed!
99 Tulkas Astaldo, the Valiant
I am surprised he ended up at a relatively low place; apparently neither the EoA nor wikipedia thought him of much interest.
And you surely realise the word 'champion' carries a different meaning than the one Queen used...
98 Nienna, Mistress of Tears
...the entire immediate families of Thingol and Húrin Thalion have yet to appear – exclusive clubs in themselves! Urwen Lalaith?
Anyway, I would have expected something like Leonard Cohen "Sisters of Mercy" (the is also a Thompson Twins song which might even be more apt, but I guess you won't approve).
97 Gloin, father of Gimli
That's a lot of points from the Tolkien Getaway!
And did you notice the song was stopped in the middle?
96 Caranthir the Dark
I normally don't watch the videos you post, just listen the the song and occasionally glance at them; in this case I chanced to look at the correct time, otherwise I wouldn't have got the connection.
Do you watch all of them in advance, or was this a famous concert?
92 Laurelin the Golden
I wouldn't have expected this song - although I have absolutely no complaints, as I love it!
Poor Jack Bruce. Come to think of it, poor Laurelin, too.
Not to replace - but I would suggest another song, which you might like too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaQsUvbCpdo
(It apparently isn't really sung live - but it also has Remember a Day at the end!)
91 Goldberry the River-daughter
Well, we are reaching territory in which there are several apt song for each character; so any alternative I or anybody might bring would be more of a comparing of notes, than a suggestion for altering the lists.
I am apparently younger than you; I first heard the song you bring at the time Peter Schilling's Major Tom was a hit - some fellow on the radio played Bowie's older song, for the listeners to get Schilling's reference.
Several years ago, squire commented on Cat Stevens' Boy with a Moon & Star on His Head and how it resonated with Tolkien; I think the nicest connection he made was to Goldberry.
And later he did better, with Sugar Magnolia (which led to a lively discussion, starring Voronwe).
90 Finduilas
I've suggested a different song, as you must remember; but it's perfectly understandable if you picked one you like better.
89 Dain II Ironfoot
A second Iron Maiden song!
Well, it was the obvious choice...
88 Huor
Twenty votes in the HoF thread?
Anyway, his might be considered a victory in the long run, hardly a triumph...
87 Dior Eluchil
Was he called king of Doriath? I don't recall him taking the title.
86 Idril Celebrindal
I'm glad for the song, even though the connection is somehow flimsy to my mind.
I would have expected something from Grace Slick performing barefoot with the Jefferson Airplane in Woodstock.
Am I to understand that you haven't included the points of the Sleeper?
85 Beorn
He sure had good intentions.
But 41 points from Drout are a lot.
84 Orodreth/Arothir
I just checked the TG, based on your recommendation - and found it pretty large, far larger than I would guess by the mere 39 points you gave it.
I assume that like any wiki-resource, the entry is in a constant state of flux - and was enlarged considerably since you've made the list; which means Orodreth would have been higher up, had you made the the list today...
82 Míriel Serindë
Could a case be made that he always resented her fateful decision? I am sure he did; or to be more percise, that a part of Tolkien's motivation to add her story was not just to create a credible scenario in which Fingolfin and Finarfin would be his half-brothers, but also to add another tragic dimension to his story.
And an excellent pick of a song! I forgot to mention in my response to your previous post, that I though of Home by the Sea for Imrahil; but never mind.
81 Durin’s Bane
I have to go with 2 song entries here, the second a tribute to the facilitator of this list… Well, had you followed squire's suggestion for Goldberry, there would be no need for two!
And anyway, the first really must have been about the god of hell-fire, no?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCTaxGhRC5M
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor
Jun 29 2015, 6:52pm
Post #3 of 9
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I had forgotten that discussion
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Thanks for the trip down memory lane. And in a nice simple twist of fate, I happen to have attend the supposed final Grateful Dead show in the bay area last night, and the second set ended with ... Sugar Magnolia (and it was rocking).
("Let There Be More Light" was another trip down memory lane, in a different way!)
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
The Hall of Fire
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sador
Half-elven
Jun 30 2015, 3:16pm
Post #4 of 9
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I've peeked into the parallel discussion in HoF, and was reminded that for some reason, you call the Balrog Henry...
There were five or seven Balrogs at the most, right? At least, according to Tolkien's latest idea on the subject.
I suppose Durin's Bane was a part of the number, but just in case he wasn't (and there's hardly a chance Dan would include this song on his lists!) -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4OS17lqHiE
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor
Jun 30 2015, 3:58pm
Post #5 of 9
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Now THAT is a walk down memory lane!
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I probably haven't heard that song in 40 years.
Henry the Balrog is an old TORC thing. I don't actually recall why he got dubbed Henry.
This is what youtube decided I should watch after Henry the Eighth:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlTKhPkZSJo
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
The Hall of Fire
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Dân o’Nandor-on-Anduin
Rivendell
Jul 2 2015, 1:08pm
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I've edited that error on the other 2 sites.
Huor, I imagine, got a vote (& 20pts) in the HoF thread for the same reason Miriel got 3 votes (& 60pts): they bore 2 of the most important of the Children of Iluvatar!
Foster speculates that Dior "may have been King of Doriath", and Tyler states as much, calling him 'King Dior of Doriath'. He was, of course, Thingol's Heir. And the Tale of Years reads "Dior goes to Doriath and endeavours to recover the realm of Thingol... and with the power of the Silmaril restores it... Dior now publicly wore the... Jewel". I think we can call it a no-brainer.
The Sleeper-in-the-Tower-of-Pearl was a separate entry, way back. So, no, points weren't awarded from the Sleeper to Idril. One can speculate at will, however.
As for Orodreth, yes, the current TG entry would give him around 46pts, thus 7pts more. It is likely as you suppose, with these internet sites being in a constant state of flux, that his lineage has been elaborated upon further. At any rate, I doubt anyone is overly concerned that Orodreth should be at #77 instead of #84.
As always, good job keeping me honest. (Though I won't be commenting on the music this time around, as we're entering the top-80, and I'm pretty set in what's to come).
(This post was edited by Dân o’Nandor-on-Anduin on Jul 2 2015, 1:10pm)
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor
Jul 2 2015, 4:25pm
Post #7 of 9
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Fixed on the master list, as well
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And I will note that Miriel got votes in the HoF thread not just because she was Feanor's mother, but also because it was she who brought Death into Arda, and as we all know, Tolkien consider that to be an important aspect of his work.
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
The Hall of Fire
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sador
Half-elven
Jul 3 2015, 8:21am
Post #8 of 9
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At any rate, I doubt anyone is overly concerned that Orodreth should be at #77 instead of #84.
I personally won't be concerned at who are the top ten, either. I think of this list as a bit of fun (for me), and a lot of hard work and learning (for you); and while I doubt you've learned much from the entries about the top ten, this is where the fun comes from, and is the most rewarding.
And of course, the list of songs you've added is (for me) a huge bonus.
I won't be commenting on the music this time around, as we're entering the top-80, and I'm pretty set in what's to come.
As was to be expected. And I suppose that in the top-80 you will often have several candidates for a single character, and will have to pick and choose according to your taste, or the connection you make between the song and the character.
Of course, I have no intention to influence your list - it is more in a way of mentioning my own connections. If you listen to Neil Young and The Who more than The Doors or The Moody Blues, these will be the connections you make - and you will be able to make more connections, knowing more of their songs who aren't played over and over again in radio stations, and being familiar with their words.
I would never have presumed to post links to other songs, if I haven't seen it done in the HoF discussion; but once I begin something, I naturally overdo it... I however got the impression that Voronwe at least, and possibly you as well, enjoyed it.
Thank you, as usual! Once this project is finished, I'll definitely miss it.
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor
Jul 3 2015, 2:23pm
Post #9 of 9
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I assume "HoF and?" means you are asking where else the list is being reported. It is at TORC (theonering.com): http://forums.theonering.com/...be39758022a53014bd44
For the record, my ranking of the particular artists that you mention would be:
1) Neil Young; 2) The Doors; 3) The Who; 4) The Moody Blues.
Not that you asked, or even care. 
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
The Hall of Fire
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