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Hamfast Gamgee
Tol Eressea
Jun 30 2015, 1:43pm
Post #1 of 10
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Hobbits = Spider killers!
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Only a bit of fun this one. But I can't help but notice that in two occasions, hobbits kill spiders at a rate that no other people even great warriors can. At Mirkwood and at Cirith Ungol. Now, all right maybe at Mirkwood Bilbo has the ring, but Sam didn't. How did he manage to defeat a spider that had not been beaten by mighty Elves or Men? Oh, well, I can only conclude that Hobbits must really hate spiders. I don't suppose that any garden spider lasted long if it tried to put up a web at Bag End!
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 30 2015, 2:10pm
Post #2 of 10
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Shelob's death -- Unconfirmed?
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We know that Sam seriously wounded Shelob, but as I remember it, Tolkien's text does not confirm her death. It does seem likely that she would have died of her wounds or starved to death after being blinded and unable to hunt.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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Bracegirdle
Valinor
Jun 30 2015, 4:47pm
Post #3 of 10
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I don’t think Shelob was blinded. She had “clustered eyes” and but ”one great eye went dark” and “Slowly he [Sam] raised his head and saw her, only a few paces away, eyeing him. . .” ; so she may have lived to shish kabob a few more orcs? 
As for Sam’s defeating Shelob, well, to a large degree. But in the end it seems she almost defeated herself. . . Shelob, with the driving force of her own cruel will, with strength greater than any warrior’s hand, thrust herself upon a bitter pike. Deep, deep it pricked, as Sam was crushed slowly to the ground.
Boromir looked in surprise at Bilbo, but the laughter died on his lips when he saw that all the others regarded the old hobbit with grave respect. Only Glóin smiled, but his smile came from old memories.
-JRR Tolkien
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 30 2015, 5:01pm
Post #4 of 10
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That's what I get for relying on Foster's Guide and not double-checking with Tolkien.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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Bracegirdle
Valinor
Jun 30 2015, 6:14pm
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Years ago I went through Foster’s Guide with a fine-tooth-comb and found about 10-15 blatant errors…
Holman Greenhand. “He lived at Number 3 Bagshot Row.” (Huh?)
West-gate of Moria. “The West-gate was made of ithildin..” (Made of stone- just the inscription was ithildin)
But I love that he gives page #s… A real research time-saver.
For the most part he is pretty darn accurate but he does need to be double-checked if one is not sure of a piece of trivia..
Boromir looked in surprise at Bilbo, but the laughter died on his lips when he saw that all the others regarded the old hobbit with grave respect. Only Glóin smiled, but his smile came from old memories.
-JRR Tolkien
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Jun 30 2015, 8:59pm
Post #6 of 10
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That's how I take that--Sam was helped by his small size, making him a little harder to grab and also more able to avoid her crushing bulk as she impaled herself.
Plus Sam was aided by his devotion to Frodo. Though that makes me wonder if two devoted Elves, say Elladan and Elrohir, could have done as much damage in fighting her.
The other factor was the Phiial, which helped dismay and blind her. No one fighting Shelob ever had a Phial handy before, so I guess it's not all due to Sam.
But you're right about Bilbo. He has no combat experience but mows through the spiders rather easily on his own. One wonders how an armh of trianed Mirkwood Elves would have faired, and why they didn't just wipe out the pesky creatures.
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Bracegirdle
Valinor
Jun 30 2015, 10:38pm
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Even though Bilbo had no combat experience
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he had three advantages during the rescue of the Dwarves:
His quick-wit with the name-calling, causing the spiders to become enraged and make mistakes; and as we all know most all Hobbits were hell-on-wheels with a stone; and most of all he was invisible during the fight.
But right! Why didn’t a couple platoons of Elves thrash the jeez outta the buggers?
But you're right about Bilbo. He has no combat experience but mows through the spiders rather easily on his own. One wonders how an armh of trianed Mirkwood Elves would have faired, and why they didn't just wipe out the pesky creatures.
I’m not sure what affect the Phial had on Shelob (if any) as Sam had “. . .thrust the revealing light deep into a pocket. . .” before his fight with her began.
But before the fight and still inside Torech Ungol where it was dark she WAS cowed and somewhat blinded by the light of the Phial.
The other factor was the Phiial, which helped dismay and blind her. No one fighting Shelob ever had a Phial handy before, so I guess it's not all due to Sam.
Boromir looked in surprise at Bilbo, but the laughter died on his lips when he saw that all the others regarded the old hobbit with grave respect. Only Glóin smiled, but his smile came from old memories.
-JRR Tolkien
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Hamfast Gamgee
Tol Eressea
Jul 1 2015, 11:23pm
Post #8 of 10
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Well, I suppose we don't actually know
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How effective the Wood-Elves would be in a one to one with the Spiders. Maybe if one was a good warrior with a keen eye and good bow or knife he or maybe she could take them on. Though we do know that Bilbo was more effectice than a group of battle-hardened Dwarves! But perhaps as I say, Hobbits really don't like spiders. Maybe these normally mild mannered, peaceful unassuming people become psychtic at the sight of giant, hairy eight-legged creatures.
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dreamflower
Lorien
Jul 4 2015, 2:13pm
Post #10 of 10
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And multiply at the rate of hundreds. Who's to say that an Elf could not kill dozens of the things? But wiping one bunch out would barely make a dent in the spider population, especially if they were somehow being encouraged by the Necromancer.
As for the hobbits, both Bilbo and Sam were "in a pinch", which as we know turns meek and peaceful hobbits into fierce defenders. It helps that spiders have only their natural defenses, while those two hobbits were armed with the same weapon: Sting, an Elven blade.
Also, in both cases, they did not particularly care if they killed the spider(s). Bilbo just wanted to draw them away from the Dwarves, and Sam wanted to drive Shelob away from Frodo. In both cases they succeeded.
Some people call it fanfiction. I call it story-internal literary criticism.
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