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DainPig
Gondor
Jun 20 2015, 11:08pm
Post #1 of 16
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Percy seeing Bard trying to kill Smaug
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In BOTFA we have a scene, on the shores of the long lake, where Percy appears and say something like that: "I saw him! He hit the dragon using a black arrow!" Then everybody come to touch Bard, the Dragonslayer.
I really hope there's a small scene on the EE where we can see Percy leaving Esgaroth and seeing, at the top of the tower, Bard with Bain killing Smaug with the black arrow!
Please Peter Jackson  !
How aaaaaaaaaaaaaare you all???
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Mooseboy018
Grey Havens
Jun 20 2015, 11:16pm
Post #2 of 16
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We don't necessarily need to see him witness the final kill. But it'd be cool to at least have a shot or two of Percy seeing Bard jumping across the rooftops to at least establish that he was keeping an eye on Bard. And we know that there will be some more stuff with Bard in the beginning of the EE. Adding Percy wouldn't be necessary, but I think it'd be a nice touch.
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DainPig
Gondor
Jun 21 2015, 12:35am
Post #3 of 16
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Many things on the movies wouldn't be necessary
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We don't necessarily need to see him witness the final kill. But it'd be cool to at least have a shot or two of Percy seeing Bard jumping across the rooftops to at least establish that he was keeping an eye on Bard. And we know that there will be some more stuff with Bard in the beginning of the EE. Adding Percy wouldn't be necessary, but I think it'd be a nice touch.
How aaaaaaaaaaaaaare you all???
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Mooseboy018
Grey Havens
Jun 21 2015, 1:06am
Post #4 of 16
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That's exactly what the extended editions are for.
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Milieuterrien
Rohan
Jun 21 2015, 6:44am
Post #5 of 16
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The dragon walk towards Bard wasn't hidden
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Smaug was speaking loud to be heard by Bard from hundred yards of distance
"You ! Bowman !"
Percy did certainly know that Bard had kept a black arrow, that only a black arrow could pierce dragon scales, and that in the end Smaug died.
So he didn't even need to see the killing to get to conclusions.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 21 2015, 2:53pm
Post #6 of 16
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Percy did certainly know that Bard had kept a black arrow, that only a black arrow could pierce dragon scales, and that in the end Smaug died.
So he didn't even need to see the killing to get to conclusions.
Did he? Bard's own family didn't know that he had the Black Arrow until he revealed it to them and the company, so why should we think that Percy had any knowledge of it? It seems more likely to me that he witnessed Bard take his shot.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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Milieuterrien
Rohan
Jun 21 2015, 5:17pm
Post #7 of 16
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So they are not supposed to be associated with his 'secret' activities, only to protect them because the Master's police could ask them.
Percy seems more to be in the trust of Bard, and Bard couldn't be the only one to know about the Black Arrow, for he could have been killed anytime.
If Bard's son didn't know about it, so at least someone else did have to.
Bard said to his son "You didn't have to know". He didn't say : "Nobody had to know"
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 21 2015, 8:53pm
Post #8 of 16
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I might be more inclined to agree if there was some actual evidence instead of just conjecture.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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Milieuterrien
Rohan
Jun 21 2015, 8:59pm
Post #9 of 16
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"so why should we think that Percy had any knowledge of it?"
My answer is a conjecture, cause it didn't have to be a certitude.
'Maybe' is sometimes enough. That is open-minding.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 22 2015, 4:25am
Post #10 of 16
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Yes. It is possible that Percy knew of the Black Arrow.
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Your previous post was not a conjecture, though. You stated that it was a certainty that Percy knew about the arrow, which is false. He may have, but there is no evidence or proof that that was the case.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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Milieuterrien
Rohan
Jun 22 2015, 4:50am
Post #11 of 16
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and the relationship held between Bard and Percy, it's a 'who else ?' question
The most important clues are that Percy stated that Bard used a 'black arrow' to pierce the dragon, and nobody (except Bard's son) was close enough to see what kind of arrow has been used by Bard.
So, Percy was most certainly in the confidence about the hidden arrow, since Bard's son wasn't
We're almost certain that neither Laketown police did know about the remaining arrow, nor the Master and his better spy Alfrid. Knowing Smaug was coming, they would have called for the arrow, and given it for a try to something else than Bard.
Which would have been the end of the town as Smaug (we'll see in EE) destroyed the windlance as soon as he arrived.
(This post was edited by Milieuterrien on Jun 22 2015, 4:51am)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 22 2015, 4:56am
Post #12 of 16
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The Black Arrow was about four times the size of a normal long bow arrow; in reality it would more accurately be described as a ballista bolt. It would be easy to distinguish it from a regular arrow.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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Milieuterrien
Rohan
Jun 22 2015, 5:06am
Post #13 of 16
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What would have Percy distinguish it from a regular ballistic arrow ?
I guess the windlance arsenal was not void of that kind of arrows, don't you ?
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 22 2015, 5:56am
Post #14 of 16
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Since you seem to want to keep this going...
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Well, the Black Arrows for the Windlance had a very distinctive appearance. The Windlance might have been mounted on the roof of the Master's Great Hall more for prestige than for anything else. We have no clear indication that any new bolts were made for it (although the point is probably moot since the device is apparently one of the first things that Smaug destroys). In any case, any ballista bolts made by the Men of Lake-town might not be of fine enough quality to be able to kill a fully-grown dragon. The Black Arrows seem to have been crafted by the dwarven smiths of Erebor.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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Milieuterrien
Rohan
Jun 22 2015, 6:15am
Post #15 of 16
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I don't specially need to keep this going
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I'm not suggesting, to keep it going, that something else than the proximity of the Dragon justifies the windlance : prestige ? Which prestige ? Is anti-aircraft warfare a matter of prestige ?
Nor I'm suggesting that a black windlance arrow seen from far away during night time and fire time has an appearance 'very distinctive' than a regular windlance arrow...
On the other hand, I think we could agree that Percy may have thought that only a black arrow, dwarvish-made, and not a regular one, could kill the dragon.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 22 2015, 6:26am
Post #16 of 16
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Any new ammunition produced for the Windlance probably wouldn't have resembled the Black Arrows too closely because of their rather unique design. However, as you say, Smaug's attack was at night (under a magically-appearing full moon, considering that the moon was just past new just hours previously). And, once you get past the details, the basic features of such a bolt would be fairly standard (head, thick shaft, feathering, etc.).
What it comes down to is that Percy claims to have witnessed Bard taking down Smaug and I find no reason to doubt his word. Or to think that he had any prior knowledge of the bolt.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jun 22 2015, 6:27am)
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