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Milieuterrien
Rohan
Jun 19 2015, 11:53pm
Post #26 of 34
(368 views)
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Mmmh.
The context was a chocolate tip too much.
And the fat man blew litteraly in the room, all his inside stuff splashed on walls and faces 
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Jun 20 2015, 11:12am
Post #27 of 34
(344 views)
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…so can't comment on it, though I suspect it would probably be one of the things I don't like in MP, as opposed to many of the Cleese moments, for example. However, if you are including this as some sort of justification for what PJ has done in the Hobbit, I'm afraid it just isn't a good argument.
The Hobbit is not a comedy (unlike MP), and while some subtle, clever humour could have been appropriate to the film, PJ is just not a good comedy writer, by any stretch of the imagination. His attempts at humour in LotR were equally ineffective (e.g. Gimli), though at least, despite his growing confidence, visible in each film, thankfully they were generally not gross.
(This post was edited by Glorfindela on Jun 20 2015, 11:13am)
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Jun 20 2015, 12:05pm
Post #28 of 34
(337 views)
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I should think one has to acknowledge personal taste
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This is surely better phrased as whether or not the individual viewer finds something funny personally than slipping into generic statements that the material is or is not funny at source?
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Milieuterrien
Rohan
Jun 20 2015, 1:27pm
Post #29 of 34
(321 views)
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I wouldn't say it's a matter of taste
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...but rather a matter of meaning (to be debated).
I don't see Alfrid's antics as a piece of comedy, but as pieces of relief in the midst of cruel battle.
What else would people ask for ? Dwarves killing orcs ? Orcs killing people, Orcs raping Laketown gals ?
Would that be subtle ?
Sure Alfrid was an opportunist, but I don't see in which scene he was gross.
- He asked if Thorin was someone to trust, then Bilbo stepped ahead.
- He suggested the Master to throw out the gold, and he went thrown himself instead
- Ignoring about Bard, he tried to take charge of the town, but was too hated to achieve it
- Bard coming, he proclaimed him King before anyone else
and so on.
For me, his scene where he hides as a woman, then abruptly shows himself angry against Hilda Bianca asking him to battle is not gross, but weird and funny.
(This post was edited by Milieuterrien on Jun 20 2015, 1:34pm)
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Jun 20 2015, 1:52pm
Post #30 of 34
(315 views)
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I should think one has to acknowledge the inappropriate use of humour
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…in a classic work by Tolkien, as displayed by Alfrid among other things, at the very least. It can be conceded, however, that according to a subjective assessment some people may judge Alfrid, toilet humour and similar gross-outs as being hilariously funny.
Since I have no wish to engage in circular arguments, that's the end of the matter as far as I'm concerned.
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Jun 20 2015, 4:56pm
Post #31 of 34
(299 views)
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Again I would say that appropriateness is a matter of personal viewpoint. One could happily argue that Tolkien's works are now, and always have been, distinctly populist and as such we think of appropriateness in context.
But yes, I would agree, humour is a very broad spectrum and encompasses those who shriek in scandalised horror at a hem showing a lady's ankle to those who enjoy Frankie Boyle and The Thick of It.
As you say, that is clearly the end of the matter!
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Milieuterrien
Rohan
Jun 20 2015, 7:05pm
Post #32 of 34
(284 views)
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We could also blame the fatigue
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of Peter Jackson.
He clearly went far on the fatigue side, jumping in a train, counting on his cups of tea.
Surely his late work has been slightly more reminiscent of his early works than they had in LOTR,
but he had many gaps to fill and had to get on his own.
I understand that may not be your cup of tea, and I believe PJ would have listened to you if he had time to.
We can also notice that apparently Warner never asked him to avoid such trend, though it would have been easy for them. But did Warner want the Hobbit achieve another 'Oscar' status ? I'm convinced that they didn't want that, from the very beginning.
The pressure of time was tremendous on the creative side and may have attacked PJ so hard that he went on a somewhat regressive path. I won't blame him for that, even if a little less audiences will get happy with it.
A man is a man and a relief is a relief.
And there are so many other reasons to admire the achievement...
(This post was edited by Milieuterrien on Jun 20 2015, 7:06pm)
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adt100
Rohan
Jun 22 2015, 12:16pm
Post #33 of 34
(239 views)
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I don't even think most of the humour was 'inappropriate'...
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You say it wasn't suitable in a 'classic work by Tolkien', as though this were some lofty tome of deep and 'serious' content that should not have any frivolity injected into it. This isn't war and peace, it's a fun, light hearted children's fantasy book. With respect of the films, I thought Alfrid fitted perfectly into the scenes he was in, and whilst all humour is subjective, in every screening I was at a large part of the audience did seem to fin his scenes funny, myself included.
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Jun 22 2015, 2:27pm
Post #34 of 34
(222 views)
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I'm glad for you that you appreciate it.
(This post was edited by Glorfindela on Jun 22 2015, 2:28pm)
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