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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 18 2015, 4:06pm
Post #26 of 33
(338 views)
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That's more of a long-term plan that doesn't really address the problem of Smaug in the present; try not to bother him and hope for the best.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Jun 18 2015, 4:11pm
Post #27 of 33
(337 views)
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Well that's the stage in the plan - and why they have a burglar at all.
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To go in and steal the Arkenstone, without arousing Smaug's notice. Then, had that been successful, we assume, to leave and round up the troops.
It actually makes much more obvious sense of the need for a burglar than in the books - both for Gandalf's desire to deal with the dragon and Thorin's desire to reclaim his treasure (and, here, sensibly his homeland).
(This post was edited by Spriggan on Jun 18 2015, 4:17pm)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 18 2015, 4:35pm
Post #28 of 33
(326 views)
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I have to presume that, in the book, Bilbo's expected role is essentially to scout things out and (if the dragon is in-residence) recover what he can without arousing Smaug. Actually, that's not very different than in the films except that the Arkenstone is specified as a goal, since it doesn't carry quite the same significance in the book.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Jun 18 2015, 4:46pm
Post #29 of 33
(325 views)
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But it is, when one thinks about it, not intuitively obvious that Bilbo carrying out treasure a handful at a time is entirely credible. Nor, really how they would then transport it back down the mountain in any volume under the flight path, as it were.
Gandalf's plan for how this would lead to the end of the Dragon is even more obscure (though Tolkien does offer the rather fig-leafy mention of Gandalf just having a good feeling about it.)
I think the difference in the films is that the idea of a burglar stealing a single item (admittedly with the challenge of finding it) is much more obvious than sneaking any volume of treasure out.
Instead this single theft offers a logical path to recovering all the treasure for Thorin and a dead dragon for Gandalf (without need for mysterious intuitions). For me it's a rare, but solid, plot improvement over the books.
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Milieuterrien
Rohan
Jun 18 2015, 6:02pm
Post #30 of 33
(316 views)
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It most probably was an improvisation
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But as Thorin and co spent years and years mourning about their lost kingdom, they had time to think about what they could do to kill a dragon inside.
"This is a Dwarf Land ! We take Revenge !"
Given the complexity of the assault against Smaug, the number of dwarves involved, their ability to handle the plot, and even the presence of Bilbo asked to handle a lever the missing dwarves could have handled if they were there, does it harm to imagine that the plan had boiled a little bit in Thorin's head before ?
At almost every turn, The Thorin of the movies is much more clever than the Thorin of the Book.
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lionoferebor
Rohan
Jun 18 2015, 10:56pm
Post #31 of 33
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This line seems to fit perfectly to me. We know from the prologue of the Bree meeting that Thorin is being hunted. So when the hunters appear to have caught up with the company, it's surely natural for Gandalf to ask the question - like saying 'how did they find us?' I wouldn't take it to mean that Thorin had tipped someone off - after all, they almost caught up with him at Bree, before the quest even started. But Gandalf is naturally cautious and he wants to understand what's happening.
Even if the original intention of the exchange was different, it still seems to me to work.
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea
Jun 19 2015, 12:05pm
Post #32 of 33
(266 views)
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The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true
Survivor to the battle for the fifth trailer
Hobbit Cinema Marathon Hero
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True
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