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DeadRabbits
Rohan
Jun 16 2015, 12:46pm
Post #1 of 6
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Was the Necromancer originally meant to have another design, based on his AUJ and Lego appearances?
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When Radagast encounters the Necromancer in AUJ, he's in the shape of a ghostly, humanoid shadow and his only appearance in the Lego playsets seems to be based on this design. What do you think was the reason behind PJ abandoning this humanoid design to go with the ink blot/dark cloud instead?
Now now Bill, you swore this was a battle between warriors, not a bunch of miss nancies, so warriors is what I brought
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dormouse
Half-elven
Jun 16 2015, 1:27pm
Post #2 of 6
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It's hard to speculate on someone's reason for doing something....
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..when you don't even know that they did it. To me the Lego design doesn't look anything like the shadow Radagast saw.
The Chronicles books have an evolving series of designs for the Necromancer, just as they do for other things in the films. Ideas they played with and discarded, ideas they developed and changed, but the dark shadow-shape seems to have been there from the beginning. They describe it as a sort of Black Hole, sucking in all light from around it.
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DeadRabbits
Rohan
Jun 16 2015, 1:54pm
Post #3 of 6
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It's pure speculation of course, but I believe that the Lego design in fact IS based on how the Necromancer was meant to have looked in DOS...
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... and that the shadow from AUJ would have looked something like the Lego design if we had gotten to see it up close. The Lego design team must have had some kind of info on or access to PJ/WETA's art work to make the sets/figures (based on how the characters were meant to look in the movies at the time).
And when it comes to speculation, isn't that one of the main purposes with these boards - to speculate on PJ & Co's intentions?
Now now Bill, you swore this was a battle between warriors, not a bunch of miss nancies, so warriors is what I brought
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dormouse
Half-elven
Jun 16 2015, 2:20pm
Post #4 of 6
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Well yes, it's all about speculating of course....
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But I can't see how anyone can speculate on why Peter Jackson did something when there's no evidence that he did do it in the first place - how can I speculate on a statement I don't actually believe....?
"What do you think was the reason behind PJ abandoning this humanoid design..."
I can't see that Peter Jackson did abandon a humanoid design. The shadow figure of Sauron Gandalf sees inside the flame in DOS is humanoid. Isn't it? Man-shape - head, two arms, two legs ... It just happens to be wearing the armour we saw in the FotR prologue, while the shadow figure Radagast sees isn't. But they both look humanoid to me..
"...to go with the ink blot/dark cloud instead?"
The dark cloud that appears in DoS before Sauron reveals himself doesn't appear instead of the human shadow, we see both.
As for the Lego figure, as far as I can see the thing that sets that apart from the figure Radagast sees is the stylised skeleton clearly printed on the body. One of the early ideas they looked at for Sauron was a dark shape with visible bones and the Lego design could be based on that. There's a piece of concept art in 'Chronicles' but the bony Sauron never appeared in the film - abandoned, as they abandoned so many other ideas, because they found something they liked better.
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DeadRabbits
Rohan
Jun 16 2015, 2:52pm
Post #5 of 6
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Yeah, I know about the humanoid figure in the eye from DOS... that's Sauron revealing himself...
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... and not a dedicated Necromancer design. And yes, I've read about the different designs in the WETA book, and that's why I was speculating over if PJ had a different design in mind than the one he ultimately chose to go by in DOS (black hole/dark cloud/ink blot). For some reason the Necromancer was manifested as a humanoid shadow in AUJ, and for some reason the Dol Guldur Lego set also included a humanoid Necromancer.
To me, that indicates that PJ changed his mind along the way. Sure, in the end it doesn't really matter and you can always argue that the dark cloud somehow manifested itself as a shadow in AUJ. However, judging by PJ's tendency to change things up last minute, I think we were supposed to see a different design for the Necromancer in DOS, but maybe it didn't work out the way they planned it would, and that's why they decided to scrap it.
Now now Bill, you swore this was a battle between warriors, not a bunch of miss nancies, so warriors is what I brought
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AshNazg
Gondor
Jun 16 2015, 4:55pm
Post #6 of 6
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I don't think the design changed...
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"Sauron cannot yet take physical form", he is a black cloud of darkness. What we see in AUJ is Sauron gathering that darkness into a humanoid shape, we literally see the shadowy figure manifest as the cloud collects itself and then as we zoom into its mouth the shape disperses back into a cloud (one assumes).
In DoS we see this cloud speak to Azog and then attack Gandalf. Once Gandalf is too weak to fight back the cloud regathers into the shape of Sauron, allowing Gandalf to identify him.
In BoFA the cloud maintains the shape of Sauron until Galadriel uses her magic to disperse him back into a shapeless cloud, and then he flees back to Mordor.
I don't see any evidence of a design or concept change. The idea is that, after his defeat, Sauron is too weak to hold himself together as a physical being. So all we see is his essence or spirit, which is kept alive bodiless due to the existence of the One Ring.
(This post was edited by AshNazg on Jun 16 2015, 4:57pm)
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