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Darkstone
Immortal
Jun 9 2015, 9:52pm
Post #1 of 19
(2155 views)
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Ursula Le Guin's Amazon BS rant references LOTR
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http://bookviewcafe.com/...06/01/up-the-amazon/
******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jun 10 2015, 12:35am
Post #2 of 19
(2072 views)
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that 'best seller' could be shortened to 'BS'.
This bit caught my eye:
I believe that reading only packaged microwavable fiction ruins the taste, destabilizes the moral blood pressure, and makes the mind obese
I think the emphasis is on 'only'. Like a healthy diet, I like my novels as 'everything in moderation' - some trashy lit can be quite satisfying amid the heavier, worthy stories that I read.
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
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Meneldor
Valinor
Jun 10 2015, 1:17am
Post #3 of 19
(2069 views)
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Guess what I just found on Amazon?
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http://www.amazon.com/...190J6DMZ6S5ETZ7KW439
Kinda makes it hard to respect her argument.
They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters, these see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep. -Psalm 107
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arithmancer
Grey Havens
Jun 10 2015, 12:58pm
Post #4 of 19
(2033 views)
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The page linked appears never to have been claimed by the author, as there is no image or author biography created by the author so at any rate she is not actively trying to sell books using this page. And the books (specific editions) listed on it, are not even available for sale!
One can, naturally, buy Le Guin's books via Amazon (elsewhere on the site). I don't think authors can generally dictate to publishers that they will not sell their books through certain stores or sites such as Amazon. (Particularly not books they signed a contract for in the 1960's, e. g Earthsea Trilogy, when nothing like Amazon existed or was imagined).
To me the essay's shortcoming was that it ignored the biggest reason I buy books on Amazon...e-books! I prefer brick and mortar for paper books (tho where I live that means Barnes and Noble...)
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NottaSackville
Valinor
Jun 10 2015, 1:23pm
Post #5 of 19
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How do e-books affect this rant?
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I'm not an author, but I know there are many around here and it would be interesting to hear from them.
Le Guin's comments seem aimed primarily at the difficulty in keeping a book in print. Doesn't the e-book channel - driven primarily by the target of her wrath - completely solve this issue?
Notta
 Happiness: money matters, but less than we think and not in the way that we think. Family is important and so are friends, while envy is toxic -- and so is excessive thinking. Beaches are optional. Trust is not. Neither is gratitude. - The Geography of Bliss by Eric Weiner as summarized by Lily Fairbairn. And a bit of the Hobbit reading thrown in never hurts. - NottaSackville
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Lily Fairbairn
Half-elven
Jun 10 2015, 4:11pm
Post #6 of 19
(2016 views)
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UKLG says:
The steady annual income of such books is what publishers relied on, till about twenty years ago, to support the risk of publishing new books by untried authors, or good books by authors who generally sold pretty well but not very well.
That idea of publishing is almost gone, replaced by the Amazon model: easy salability, heavy marketing, super-competitive pricing, then trash and replace.
Any publisher willing to print a book that isn’t easy to market, or to keep books that sell modestly but steadily in print, is bucking this trend. Most of them are small houses. The few big publishers that now continue functioning at all under the deliberately destructive pressure of Amazon marketing strategies are increasingly controlled by that pressure, both in what they publish and how long they keep it in print. This pressure forbids them to value quality as well as salability, or to plan in terms of long-term sales.
This is all true. However, I feel that Amazon is more a symptom than a cause. Yes, the publishing industry as it used to be has been swept away. But this is the new business model in a variety of other industries, too, led by the internet and the fracturing of the marketplace.
One of the responses below her essay includes this, which is also true:
For many authors, Amazon is all about “the long tail.” Once published on Amazon, a book can stay there, if current trends continue, more or less forever. It is publishers who remove books from print. If I publish a book digitally, there it stays on Amazon until I take it down. If I publish one through CreateSpace, it will be available, in print, for either readers to buy directly or retailers to buy wholesale, until I take it down.
Leaving aside digital, the only way a book can go out of print is if the party responsible for printing it decides not to print any more copies.
(To which I will add, that even if the party decides not to print any more copies, those copies that have already been printed will remain in the marketplace.)
I feel as though UKLG is lamenting the horse that got away and is trying frantically to close the barn doors. I can't fault her for that. I've expounded many of the same sentiments myself. Being an author today (as in, selling your work) is a completely different process than it used to be. It's multi-tasking on a vast scale, not just writing a good quality book.
Yes, many poor quality books are now available, not just from the authors themselves but from publishers large and small. You can say the same about many good quality books, though, that under the old model might never have reached the marketplace. And certainly readers and critics will continue to disagree about the definition of quality just as they always have, even though the titles available for discussion and disagreement have proliferated like mad.
The sheer quantity of material now available, and the difficulty of sifting through it, is the issue. Yes, books are becoming increasingly disposable (as are other forms of art), no more than a commodity at the mercy of economic pressures. But I'm afraid we have to live in the world we live in, not in the world we'd like to inhabit.
Where now the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing?
Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing?
Where is the hand on the harpstring, and the red fire glowing?
Where is the spring and the harvest and the tall corn growing?
They have passed like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow;
The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow....
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NottaSackville
Valinor
Jun 10 2015, 5:28pm
Post #7 of 19
(2007 views)
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I was hoping you'd chime in :)
What you say makes a ton of sense, especially this comment at the end:
The sheer quantity of material now available, and the difficulty of sifting through it, is the issue. Yes, books are becoming increasingly disposable (as are other forms of art), no more than a commodity at the mercy of economic pressures.
From the other side of the fence as a reader, this certainly seems like a big deal these days. On the other hand, the internet is also providing solutions to this - thank goodness for Goodreads, TORN reading threads (and other threads) and yes, even Amazon reviewers.
Notta
Happiness: money matters, but less than we think and not in the way that we think. Family is important and so are friends, while envy is toxic -- and so is excessive thinking. Beaches are optional. Trust is not. Neither is gratitude. - The Geography of Bliss by Eric Weiner as summarized by Lily Fairbairn. And a bit of the Hobbit reading thrown in never hurts. - NottaSackville
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dormouse
Half-elven
Jun 10 2015, 8:29pm
Post #8 of 19
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... and I agree with most of what you say. The world has changed and however much we may sometimes miss the way things used to be, there's no pulling it back.
Amazon is too powerful - yet we all use it and need it. I had a new (print) book out at the end of last year with a small, traditional publishing house. Just days before it was due out Amazon decided it was 'unobtainable - we do not know when or if this book will be in stock' and cancelled all their pre-orders. I was left trying to sort it out myself because the publisher just kept saying "Why does it matter - people can order from our website?" It was clear how much they resented Amazon. But, frustrating as it was, I could see that it did matter very much to have the book available on Amazon - I know where most people go to look for their books.
The whole process of publicity for new books is different too. My previous books were all reviewed in the national (UK) press - the publisher had a very active marketing department. They arranged radio interviews, even one TV one. Those books became out of print when that publisher went out of business. The marketing department at the publisher for the new book consists of one part-timer - very keen but completely overwhelmed by her workload; the book has had no more than a couple of local paper articles. Authors today have to do a lot of their own marketing (and I'm useless at it). Meanwhile my agent has started to take advantage of the new state of affairs and is bringing out some of his authors' backlist titles, including mine as ebooks/POD paperbacks through Amazon. I thought he was crazy at first but he was right - the books are really selling well.
It's easy to feel bewildered by the way things are changing. But as you say, we live in the world we live in; the challenge is to work out how to make the best of it.
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Lily Fairbairn
Half-elven
Jun 10 2015, 9:33pm
Post #9 of 19
(1979 views)
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"Why does it matter - people can order from our website?"
Yes, that's going to end well, I say with a heavy sigh.
I personally try to buy my books from Barnes and Noble, just to give Amazon some competition. But you still have to deal with them. (Amazon, that is.)
I'm useless at marketing, too, one reason why more or less being forced into retirement by my eye problems isn't as horrible as it might otherwise be. Thank goodness your agent is savvy enough to bring out your books as ebooks and POD! Most of my writing income comes from my electronic backlist now, not from paper.
Good luck to you!
Where now the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing?
Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing?
Where is the hand on the harpstring, and the red fire glowing?
Where is the spring and the harvest and the tall corn growing?
They have passed like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow;
The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow....
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Jun 11 2015, 1:34pm
Post #10 of 19
(1925 views)
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I managed, so surely others will be able to get it, too!
Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Jun 11 2015, 1:43pm
Post #11 of 19
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As a wannabe author, I hope to e-publish later this year or early next - probably the kind of "junk" fiction Ms. LeGuin was complaining about, but whatever. I guess a "good book" is always a matter of opinion/personal taste, but yes I'd like to write something that people are still reading in 50 - 100 years as well. Anyway, I've done some research on what it's like to publish (self or otherwise) and it seems that you pretty much have to market your book yourself; no one else does that anymore. It seems like that's even more work than writing the darn book is! I've also read that companies like Amazon don't really care - they SAY they do, but they don't. Amazon will make it's money from selling 150 copies of 100,000 books. I've read that's how many copies the average e-book sells, which is in itself depressing, but as others have pointed out e-books are the future, just like how the Internet has pretty much put newspapers out of print. (Guilty as charged, I get my news online.)
I also wonder whatever happened to copy editing; it's amazing how many stupid errors get left in the published book - and I'm talking print as well as e-pub! Anybody know a good one? I'll probably need one in a few months (hopefully!)
Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association
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Lily Fairbairn
Half-elven
Jun 11 2015, 2:30pm
Post #12 of 19
(1908 views)
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...you will very likely have to market your book yourself even if you publish with a traditional publisher. And you certainly will if you self-publish! Some people love marketing. Me, I find it exponentially more work than writing the book. 
Right now Amazon is still being fairly helpful to authors, but I don't expect this to last. You're quite right how they make their money, and you're quite right about how few copies the average self-pubbed book sells. In fact, 150 may be a generous estimate.
But then, the fact thatyou're aware of copy-editing shows that you're already a step ahead. Here's a page on sf/f writer Laura Resnick's website which has all sorts of useful information, including a list of tried-and-true editors, many of whom once worked for major print publishers.
Good luck!
Where now the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing?
Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing?
Where is the hand on the harpstring, and the red fire glowing?
Where is the spring and the harvest and the tall corn growing?
They have passed like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow;
The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow....
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 11 2015, 7:06pm
Post #14 of 19
(1866 views)
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When we lived in Brockport, NY I made many of my book purchases at Liftbridge Books, a local, independenty-owned bookstore. Likewise, I did much of my gaming shopping at one of two friendly local game stores in the Rochester area (Millennium Games or the now-defunct Crazy Egor's). These days, I buy most of my Cubicle 7 game product directly from the publisher, who provides free PDFs for the physical item purchased (when applicable). I've also frequented a number of comic shops over the years.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jun 11 2015, 7:10pm)
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NottaSackville
Valinor
Jun 11 2015, 8:20pm
Post #15 of 19
(1853 views)
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And Millennium makes me wish I had more time in life...
Notta
Happiness: money matters, but less than we think and not in the way that we think. Family is important and so are friends, while envy is toxic -- and so is excessive thinking. Beaches are optional. Trust is not. Neither is gratitude. - The Geography of Bliss by Eric Weiner as summarized by Lily Fairbairn. And a bit of the Hobbit reading thrown in never hurts. - NottaSackville
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NottaSackville
Valinor
Jun 11 2015, 8:24pm
Post #16 of 19
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I'm pretty sure there's a copy editor or two that frequent this board...
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Maybe when the time is right a post looking for help might bring you some useful information.
Notta
Happiness: money matters, but less than we think and not in the way that we think. Family is important and so are friends, while envy is toxic -- and so is excessive thinking. Beaches are optional. Trust is not. Neither is gratitude. - The Geography of Bliss by Eric Weiner as summarized by Lily Fairbairn. And a bit of the Hobbit reading thrown in never hurts. - NottaSackville
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 11 2015, 8:33pm
Post #17 of 19
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Good to hear from another Western New Yorker!
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I see that the Lift Bridge Book Shop changed hands earlier this year. I hope that Archie and his wife enjoy their retirement.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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NottaSackville
Valinor
Jun 11 2015, 8:35pm
Post #18 of 19
(1852 views)
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We haven't been there in a few years
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It's a long drive for us that was more compelling when the Nottettes were younger.
Dave
Happiness: money matters, but less than we think and not in the way that we think. Family is important and so are friends, while envy is toxic -- and so is excessive thinking. Beaches are optional. Trust is not. Neither is gratitude. - The Geography of Bliss by Eric Weiner as summarized by Lily Fairbairn. And a bit of the Hobbit reading thrown in never hurts. - NottaSackville
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Kimi
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jun 11 2015, 9:10pm
Post #19 of 19
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I'm a Le Guin fan. I'm also a writer.
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I've been a fan of Ursula Le Guin's writing for many, many years. As a reader, I hope she continues to share her brilliance for many more years to come.
As a writer, I find myself in agreement with Lily, and with the commenters she quotes. It's publishers who take books out of print, no doubt for various reasons. If it's an ebook that hasn't been withdrawn, or available as a print book, it'll continue to be listed.
I'm self-published (yes, one of those :)). I'm a slow writer (three years since my last one was released). I've never come near the NYT/USA Today bestseller lists, and don't expect I ever will, but my books continue to sell steadily via various retail outlets (mainly as ebooks, though print-on-demand is also a small but satisfying part of my sales). I've sold over 500,000 so far, and things are still going well. This is almost entirely via word-of-mouth, as I'm no great marketer.
The closest I ever came to traditional publishing was a tentative approach years ago to a couple of NZ-based ones, who assured me there would be no market outside the country for my very New Zealand stories. So I kept writing, and my manuscripts stayed on a dusty shelf until self-publishing and distributing via retailers like Amazon, iBooks, B&N, etc. became an option.
I'm very grateful that Ursula Le Guin has shared her gift of writing with the word. And I'm very grateful for the opportunities that have made it possible for me to become a full-time writer.
The Passing of Mistress Rose
My historical novels
Do we find happiness so often that we should turn it off the box when it happens to sit there?
- A Room With a View
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