|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
sador
Half-elven
Jun 7 2015, 11:01am
Post #1 of 6
(1508 views)
Shortcut
|
|
** 'The Fellowship of the Ring' book II, ch. 9-0, 'The Great River': Anduin the Great flows past many shores
|
Can't Post
|
|
Frodo was aroused by Sam. He found that he was lying, well wrapped, under tall grey-skinned trees in a quiet corner of the woodlands on the west bank of the Great River Anduin. He had slept the night away, and the grey of morning was dim among the bare branches. Gimli was busy with a fire at hand.
This chapter has a leisurely, pastoral opening; one might expect this to be a travelogue! Other chapters begin with Frodo waking up, too – but their opening passages covey a sense of urgency (A Conspiracy Unmasked) anxiety (Flight to the Ford), or suspense (The Window on the West). Here it seems he has had a long and pleasant night, and the fire Gimli is busy at exudes a feeling of outdoors comfort.
Does this description feel familiar to anything you've experienced?
This fleeting sense will pass, but the leisurely pace will continue for some days (for the Fellowship) or a couple of pages (for us) yet.
Welcome to the discussion of The Great River! It is a great pleasure to lead a RR chapter discussion again, and I am looking forward to reading all of your comments.
This is not a long chapter, but it is packed with events, debates and tantalizing hints. There isn't a chance I will be able to touch upon all of them; but you are more than welcome to raise any relevant topic I have omitted. As this is a very scenic chapter, I would appreciate very much any pictures, or images which any of you could enhance and enrich the discussion with. Please do!
Starting with tomorrow, I intend to post three threads, with some leading questions for discussion. The first one will cover the first eight days of the water journey, up to Sarn Gebir; the second will discuss the events which happened on the night the Fellowship finds itself in the Rapids; and the third will carry on with the next two days, and at the end we will pass the Gates of Argonath and reach the lake on Nen Hithoel. If I will have the time to prepare properly, I will append to each thread two further posts, discussing in greater detail two incidents, or themes, which arise in the relevant pages.
I remember well my first discussion of this chapter. It was in the fourth time the Reading Room discussed The Lord of the Rings, in 2007-2008. The brilliant weaver was supposed to lead the discussion, but then she had to substitute for whoever it was who volunteered to lead The Ring Goes South; and she asked for someone to lead The Great River. N.E. Brigand asked for volunteers, and I was torn: on the one hand I really wanted to try my hand, but on the other I was frankly scared: I had a very exalted image of what a proper discussion entails, and was concerned I wouldn't be able to meet the standard. After a bit of agonizing, I finally worked myself to volunteering – only to find that a couple of hours before I logged in, the chapter was taken by Entwife Wandlimb (who indeed did an excellent job).
So this is my opportunity to make up for the past hesitation, and I hope you folks will enjoy it.
Not that it's an excuse, but it seems that Tolkien himself was not sure about this chapter. Up to the actual writing of it, he still expected it to be not a chapter in itself, but the beginning of chapter XXI, 'The Scattering of the Company' (The Treason of Isengard, p. 364), of a book which was supposed to have under thirty chapters (ibid. p. 340). It appears that at this stage he realized the book will be more larger – even if the two major embellishments added in books III (the politics of Rohan) and IV (the character of Faramir) were not yet forseen.
The whole concept of a Great River arose pretty late. There is nothing of the sort in the early versions of the Silmarillion; it arose in The Hobbit as a river in which the Carrock is set, becoming a formidable one only when Beorn (then called Medwed) mentions it as an obstacle which the goblins can cross occasionally, apparently with difficulty (The History of the Hobbit, page 242; and text note 34 on p. 251).
But if such a river runs parallel to both the Misty Mountains and Mirkwood for many miles, it must be enormous! And reach the Sea somewhere. So in the vaster scope of The Lord of the Rings it becomes the frontier line, which in Book II the fellowship try to reach, never planning much beyond it; and after the breaking of the fellowship, it clearly separates between the action of books III and V (until the last chapter of book V) on the one hand, and IV and the first four chapters of book VI on the other.
It also came to figure out prominently in the new cycle of legends of Númenor, and finally added to the Silmarillion – as the obstacle at which the Nandor Elves turned aside, forsaking the Great Journey (Morgoth's Ring p. 82). It is the most important geographical feature in the later tales added to the legendarium, as a perusing of Unfinished Tales will show.
That's it for this summary! Any comments?
Apart from being the frontier, the Anduin is where the Fellowship must decide where to go next. In the previous chapter, Celeborn gives them boats, to go on while postponing the decision; in the next chapter, the die is finally cast.
At the end of the chapter, we must see (please remind me if I forget to ask about it!) whether the journey by water had advanced the decision, and how. But in the meanwhile –
Aragorn has thanked Celeborn profusely for the gift of the boats, and the further moratorium before making a decision; but do you agree? Should it have been better to cross to the East bank at once (as Frodo will later suggest he should have), or go to Rohan and Gondor, or split?
Until tomorrow.
|
|
|
noWizardme
Half-elven
Jun 7 2015, 4:45pm
Post #2 of 6
(1463 views)
Shortcut
|
Thanks for leading us downriver, sador. I was amused by your story about nearly leading this chapter before - perhaps everyone thinks 'I can't lead a chapter like [insert name of especially admired chapter-leader]' (I know I do) but actually, many kinds of chapter leadership are good, most certainly including yours.
I'm observing that the company drifts down the river for some days, and that it's possible to read that as a metaphor for allowing the decision to drift. There is the sense of things going more slowly than they the characters ought really to let them, towards a conclusion that manages to feel both inevitable and surprising
Should the Fellowship get on with deciding to go East or West, and not put it off by drifting (literally and I think metaphorically)? Well, maybe 'yes'. But I don't think they can: we're stuck where we were after their debate in 'Farewell to Lorien', where nobody except Boromir offers much leadership in making a decision.
Frodo may have already decided that he should slip away and go East. But he doesn't - we hear of no attempt by Frodo to sneak off. Perhaps the Company's way of travelling by night thwarts him (harder to slip off during the day). More likely he's not screwed up his courage yet. I suppose the practical advantage of heading East earlier would be to skirt to the north of the Emyn Muil. But, we know there are some orc patrols at the least. Maybe the hard and unexpected route through the Emyn Muil is the best way for Frodo.
In the end of course, none of the others get to choose their route west...
~~~~~~
"nowimë I am in the West, Furincurunir to the Dwarves (or at least, to their best friend) and by other names in other lands. Mostly they just say 'Oh no it's him - look busy!' "
Or "Hold off! unhand me, grey-beard loon!"
My avatar image s looking a bit blue, following the rumbling of my 2 "secrets"  : http://newboards.theonering.net/...i?post=855358#855358
This year LOTR turns 60. The following image is my LOTR 60th anniversary party footer! You can get yours here: http://newboards.theonering.net/...i?post=762154#762154
|
|
|
Hamfast Gamgee
Tol Eressea
Jun 7 2015, 10:45pm
Post #3 of 6
(1448 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Whilst not much is going on in the company
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
A lot is going on elsewhere in ME and in fact quite close by. Saruman has declared war against Rohan and launched his invasion. Theodred is killed by it. There is an evil grip on the King of Rohan. The Ents in Fangorn are becoming restless and the forces of Mordor are gathering. And of course a certain Wizard reawakes. In fact, one would have thought the greatest hunter in the world, with a certain sixth sense to him might have recognized some of this. But perhaps he was a bit clouded in grief and the cares of leading the Fellowship.
|
|
|
sador
Half-elven
Jun 8 2015, 6:01am
Post #4 of 6
(1414 views)
Shortcut
|
'Vell, sir,' rejoined Sam, after a short pause, 'I think I see your drift; and if I do see your drift, it's my 'pinion that you're a-comin' it a great deal too strong, as the mail-coachman said to the snowstorm, ven it overtook him'.
- Pickwick Papers, ch. 52.
I will discuss this drifting in today's post.
Well, that old story had to do with all 22 chapters being taken before I joined; but yes, I always find it difficult to make the plunge. I suppose some feel like me, while others find it easier.
And I must apologise for not participating in last week's discussion. I have read it, and will try to return to it next week.
|
|
|
noWizardme
Half-elven
Jun 8 2015, 6:13am
Post #5 of 6
(1416 views)
Shortcut
|
The company cruises reasonably peacefully through what s rapidly becoming a war zone- but we don't find that out for a bit.
~~~~~~
"nowimë I am in the West, Furincurunir to the Dwarves (or at least, to their best friend) and by other names in other lands. Mostly they just say 'Oh no it's him - look busy!' "
Or "Hold off! unhand me, grey-beard loon!"
My avatar image s looking a bit blue, following the rumbling of my 2 "secrets" : http://newboards.theonering.net/...i?post=855358#855358
This year LOTR turns 60. The following image is my LOTR 60th anniversary party footer! You can get yours here: http://newboards.theonering.net/...i?post=762154#762154
|
|
|
sador
Half-elven
Jun 8 2015, 6:20am
Post #6 of 6
(1413 views)
Shortcut
|
According to appendix B, not much happens in the nine days the Fellowship drifts down the River. Only on February 25th, as they pass the Argonath, the first Battle of the Fords of Isen is fought, with fatal consequences to Theodred.
The strange moratorium the Fellowship is in seems to extend all over the place.
But of course, trouble is brewing everywhere; and even if nothing happens above the surface, things are coming to a head soon.
Which Aragorn does feel in his heart.
|
|
|
|
|
