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bungobaggins
Lorien
Jun 6 2015, 10:28pm
Post #2 of 17
(954 views)
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Avatar made bank at the worldwide box office in December of 2009.
Follow the money.
PJ has admittted that he wishes he'd been able to shoot LOTR in 3D. What a nightmare that would have been.
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AshNazg
Gondor
Jun 6 2015, 10:30pm
Post #3 of 17
(948 views)
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I don't think he changed his tune...
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PJ said while working on Tintin that all of his future movies will be in 3D. He's always pushed that tech. This answer was in response to pressuring other directors into using 3D, you get the sense that PJ really wanted it in 3D and del Toro didn't, but PJ understood del Toro's perspective and knows there are pros and cons.
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Eleniel
Tol Eressea
Jun 7 2015, 5:43am
Post #4 of 17
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PJ does go on in the interview to say that his next live-action film would be in 3-D, anyway, so in a way you could see it coming. But it appears from the comments I posted (as you said) he understood and appreciated where GdT was coming from, and that it would be detrimental to the series of films as a whole to have some on 35mm and 2-3 in digital. Yet he went ahead and did it anyway once he had the reins...
"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort
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Gandalf the Green
Rivendell
Jun 7 2015, 10:13am
Post #5 of 17
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PJ neglected his own words and ruined things as a result
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"Jackson: But also, there's something about it being shot on 35 mm that makes it feel like these movies, these five movies, are going to look as if they belong...
Del Toro: Together.
Jackson: To suddenly be digital and 3-D for two of them and not the other three is a slightly odd thing."
Yes, so thanks for ruining that, PJ.
He knew that going digital and 3D for The Hobbit would cause visual inconsistency, yet he decided to drop it anyways. And now that's one of my several major complaints about this trilogy...
And five movies, if only... Should've kept Del Toro.
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Bofur01
Lorien
Jun 7 2015, 12:09pm
Post #6 of 17
(802 views)
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I'm not entirely sure two films would've been better...
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I mean, having the barrels sequence boosted to become the climax of film one would most likely be bad...
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Bombadil
Half-elven
Jun 7 2015, 1:32pm
Post #7 of 17
(775 views)
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"The ONLY thing that is Constant? in Life is..Change"..//
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www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"
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Bombadil
Half-elven
Jun 7 2015, 1:45pm
Post #8 of 17
(770 views)
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When Bomby reads about "Bummed OUT" Fans?..HE
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often just hides in the
BackStage videos..?
BECAUSE you get to understand all the Good
these Movies did for everyone involved.
AND that is just, for the Entire
CREW of thousands...
OH!
ALSO,
A Worldwide
Audience had an
AWESOME time,TOO!
www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"
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sycorax82
Rohan
Jun 7 2015, 2:04pm
Post #9 of 17
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The studios no doubt had several 'discussions' about 3D later on
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Del Toro didn't want to shoot it in 3D or with an over-reliance on digital effects, but obviously the studios had other ideas and I'm sure we will find out later this was part of the reason for him leaving the project.
Peter kind of sold himself out to make the Hobbit films, though you can't blame him. A point he made at the time was there were so many people's jobs on the line he felt it was his duty to come in and save the project. It wouldn't surprise me one bit of the final deal on the Hobbit only came about with the promise of Peter directing and for it to be 3D. WB are insane enough for that to be the case!
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arithmancer
Grey Havens
Jun 7 2015, 2:32pm
Post #10 of 17
(758 views)
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...supporting an artistic choice of the director of the films he is producing. And he is right - in a Del Toro version of the Hobbit, using film, 2-D, and some of the same practical effects that were used on LotR, that would provide a certain continuity between the two series. On the other hand, there would also be differences because of the different directorial choices that would inevitably affect the "look" of a del Toro Hobbit series. Even with the same team, the choices del Toro would make would reflect his (unique, personal) tastes, sensibilities, and approach to the story.
Instead, when del Toro had to leave and Jackson took over, we have continuity in the latter area with all 6 films being directed by the same person, and change instead in the technology used. Personally, I think PJ wanted to experiment with the digital, 3D, and HFR tech, based on for example his comment about 3D during Tintin, and his enthusiasm for the HFR in various interviews. (I don't believe HFR is something any studio would have "forced" on him - as it is new and untested).
I am also just not convinced that a "Hobbit" made slavishly adhering to late 1990s/early 2000s methods for the sake of "continuity" would have been any better that what we got. Firstly because aside from the generic "too much CGI" complaint a lot of what disappointed fans feel ails the series is not directly related to technology. Alfrid can have a large role with regular film, Jackson can choose a loud, colorful color grade with regular film, Troll snot probably *was* a practical effect, and so on...
But even more, I feel it has to do with the nature of the team working on these films. LotR was made by pioneers using cutting edge technology, even technology they were inventing as they went. They were people excited to discover its possibilities and use them to bring a story they loved to life as magnificently and grandly as possible, in a way no one had ever done before for any story. To expect these same people to do as well a decade later *without* letting them continue to try more things, while requiring them to do something that has, absolutely, been done before (by them!) seems counter-intuitive, to me. It is not in their blood.
(This post was edited by arithmancer on Jun 7 2015, 2:35pm)
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Jun 7 2015, 3:17pm
Post #11 of 17
(730 views)
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This is pure speculation, like so many theories that are floated about when it comes to these films. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if PJ didn't do EXACTLY as he wanted to do. (We'll never know, of course, whether this is the case.)
Del Toro didn't want to shoot it in 3D or with an over-reliance on digital effects, but obviously the studios had other ideas and I'm sure we will find out later this was part of the reason for him leaving the project.
It wouldn't surprise me one bit of the final deal on the Hobbit only came about with the promise of Peter directing and for it to be 3D. WB are insane enough for that to be the case!
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AshNazg
Gondor
Jun 7 2015, 4:56pm
Post #12 of 17
(695 views)
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I'm 100% certain the 3D was PJ's decision, not the studio...
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Peter Jackson is a huge fan of 3D, he took 3D photos on set during LotR and has said before that he plans on using 3D for all his future films. Not only this, but he has put a lot of money into supporting RED digital cameras, since making his film "Crossing the Line" so it was unlikely he was going to use film. Also, Jackson bought 48 (48!!) RED Epic cameras so that he could shoot this, and future movies, in digital 5K, HFR, 3D. - PJ was very determined to make these movies using the most cutting edge tech available to him. He's a pioneer.
Del Toro was more interested in maintaining a continuity with LotR and creating a seamless transition between the two projects. Del Toro has more of a focus on tradition over technology, and although Jackson works differently, he fully understands and respects Del Toro's perspective - that's all he is saying in this interview.
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glor
Rohan
Jun 10 2015, 2:36am
Post #13 of 17
(522 views)
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Pacific Rim was shot in 3d using RED digital cameras
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Tradition over technology, ....I think not .
Sorry but Del Toro is not some traditionalist purist, he is however a director who contradicts himself, the man said he hated fantasy and the next thing he does his sign on to direct the Hobbit.
He says he likes 35mm film then directs a 3d digital movie.
No mascara can survive BOTFA
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Hobbity Hobbit
Lorien
Jun 10 2015, 12:01pm
Post #14 of 17
(503 views)
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I thought he did pretty well, The Hobbit does have faults, but so does Lord of the Rings. Its okay not to agree with Sir Peter Jackson on some things, but I don't think its okay to insult him like some people do. I used to go on this forum where we'd movie-haters and movie-lovers would debate but sometimes both sides just get one-sided in their opinion and that's why I like coming here. But sometimes it starts happening here too.
I also wouldn't say that, because Peter Jackson did say that he'd never do a project as big again, things usually change when it comes to the film industry.
"As the snowflakes cover my fallen brothers,
I will say this last goodbye."
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Eleniel
Tol Eressea
Jun 10 2015, 3:30pm
Post #15 of 17
(487 views)
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To me, the point is not what GdT went on to do next...
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but that he showed understanding that fans desired a TH that would match seamlessly with PJ's original trilogy, and he was prepared to film sympathetically to make the set work together. PJ, on the other hand, once he was in charge, threw that out the window and eagerly took the opportunity to do what he wanted all along, despite his words in the interview - where he was making the point himself, not just backing up GdT's comments. <shrug>
"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort
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AshNazg
Gondor
Jun 10 2015, 9:21pm
Post #16 of 17
(462 views)
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I didn't say he was a traditionalist...
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...But that his focus was on using traditional techniques to tie The Hobbit to LotR with a consistent aesthetic. Every film is different and requires different cameras to suit their atmosphere. Del Toro understands this - his next film uses the Arri Alexa XT, another digital camera, but Del Toro wants to keep it 2D. He also wanted Pacific Rim to be 2D, but the studio pressured him into releasing a 3D conversion and even extended his budget in order to re-render CGI in 3D.
On the other hand, Peter Jackson doesn't use different cameras for different aesthetics and just goes with the newest, most advanced piece of tech he can find. He demonstrated this best when he used Go Pros in his Barrel Scene. He broke aesthetic continuity with his own film for the sake of using the newest and best toys at his disposal.
Neither of these approaches is wrong. PJ likes to experiment to push and advance the technology and Del Toro likes to experiment to create a visual style.
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Meneldor
Valinor
Jun 11 2015, 5:16pm
Post #17 of 17
(415 views)
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I'm willing to make some sacrifices in visual continuity
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in order to see Smaug the Magnificent in towering IMAX 3d. That was truly An Experience!
They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters, these see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep. -Psalm 107
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