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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 4 2015, 8:12pm
Post #26 of 41
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I would just contrast such things very starkly with other instances where timing is presented as important.
Remaining internally consistent in Lake-town and allowing the company two-days to reach the Mountain (still not really enough time, but better that what we get) would have eliminated this question. We wouldn't have to seen the party camping out or anything, all that was required was a change to a single line of dialogue. Then we also would not have had the missing day in Lake-town. If the company had actually lost an entire day in preparation, between the raid on the armory and their departure, then there should have been some indication of that.
On the other hand, if this kind of thing happened to Thorin all of the time then that might explain why his beard is so short; he kept gnawing on it in frustration!
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jun 4 2015, 8:16pm)
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Jun 4 2015, 8:47pm
Post #27 of 41
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Sure - till we get to the "should" I think.
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I can't see that it is a necessity for a film to enable deduction of a detailed chronology. I don't think the question arises, beyond retrospective curiosity, as you say.
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AshNazg
Gondor
Jun 5 2015, 12:17am
Post #28 of 41
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I'm guessing you don't like time travel movies //
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AshNazg
Gondor
Jun 5 2015, 12:20am
Post #29 of 41
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There's one very simple answer...
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Kili, Bofur and co. got lost for days in the dark halls of Erebor, while trying to find the rest of the company, before Bilbo finally found them.
(This post was edited by AshNazg on Jun 5 2015, 12:21am)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 5 2015, 2:45pm
Post #30 of 41
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I can't see that it is a necessity for a film to enable deduction of a detailed chronology. I don't think the question arises, beyond retrospective curiosity, as you say.
I'm not asking for a detailed chronology here, just for enough information to clarify the issue of the missing day in Lake-town. I do not think that that is asking for too much.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 5 2015, 2:47pm
Post #31 of 41
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I'm guessing you don't like time travel movies
I like time-travel movies just fine. I'm mot sure why you would think otherwise. What I do dislike is badly thought-out time travel in movies (or books, comics, etc.).
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 5 2015, 2:51pm
Post #32 of 41
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Kili, Bofur and co. got lost for days in the dark halls of Erebor, while trying to find the rest of the company, before Bilbo finally found them.
I like my simple answer better. It took them longer to reach Erebor becuase they were tired and had injured among them. We already know that they were experiencing those conditions; and it just makes more sense.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Jun 5 2015, 3:45pm
Post #33 of 41
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These are very much background details and are essentially arbitrary. It wouldn't make any difference to the story if it was a day, or two days, or three would it?
So any interest, I would say, is in that retrospective curiosity camp.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 5 2015, 3:58pm
Post #34 of 41
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It does because of the dialogue.
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These are very much background details and are essentially arbitrary. It wouldn't make any difference to the story if it was a day, or two days, or three would it?
So any interest, I would say, is in that retrospective curiosity camp.
At the time of the raid on the armory we are told that Durin's Day is two days away. When the Lake-town Four arrive in Erebor, Bilbo tells them that Thorin hasn't left the treasure-hoard in days. So, yes, it does matter.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Jun 5 2015, 4:07pm
Post #35 of 41
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How does it make any difference to the story? If Durin's Day had been three days away, would it make any difference? If Thorin was in the vaults for two days, or one day, or 12 hours, what difference does it make?
I can't see that these are not arbitrary time references. Or am I missing something?
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AshNazg
Gondor
Jun 5 2015, 4:12pm
Post #36 of 41
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Because of the "over-thinking" on details...
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Any time travel movie falls apart the second you begin to think about it logically. 
I'm am kidding, by the way. I recognise you made this thread for fun discussion.
(This post was edited by AshNazg on Jun 5 2015, 4:14pm)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 5 2015, 5:04pm
Post #37 of 41
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How does it make any difference to the story? If Durin's Day had been three days away, would it make any difference? If Thorin was in the vaults for two days, or one day, or 12 hours, what difference does it make?
I can't see that these are not arbitrary time references. Or am I missing something?
For me, the company's quick arrival breaks my willing suspension of disbelief. Thorin left Lake-town and made it to Erebor in a single day? And before sundown? I don't buy it. Two (or three) days would have been better--and had already been set up. Peter Jackson chose to ignore his own script to the detriment of the story. If he really thought that one day would be enough, he should have altered the earlier dialogue in ADR.
I don't see an actual problem with Thorin in the Mountain unless someone insists that the others arrived on the day after Smaug's attack; then we have a contradiction.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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AshNazg
Gondor
Jun 5 2015, 5:29pm
Post #38 of 41
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"Thorin's been down there for days" implies that more time passes during the scene changes than we realise, so it makes the world seem bigger, like we're only seeing the highlights of a wider story. I love that.
I think the real problem isn't the line, or how long it takes Fili and Kili to get to Erebor, but the fact that the first bunch of dwarves got there so quickly. It takes them days (possibly weeks?) in the book to get from Laketown to Erebor.
PJ's sense of distance and time, even direction, is all over the place in all of the movies, though. So we're apparently just not supposed to think about it. It's like Legolas saying "The Uruks turn North-East" in TTT. I just blank it all out and accept that PJ is not Tolkien when it comes to the details.
(This post was edited by AshNazg on Jun 5 2015, 5:31pm)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 5 2015, 6:35pm
Post #39 of 41
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I think the real problem isn't the line, or how long it takes Fili and Kili to get to Erebor, but the fact that the first bunch of dwarves got there so quickly. It takes them days (possibly weeks?) in the book to get from Laketown to Erebor.
It took the company three days to reach Erebor from Lake-town, two of those by water. But that still left them at least a couple of weeks to find the Secret Door before Durin's Day.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Jun 5 2015, 10:50pm
Post #40 of 41
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I'm not sure why you wouldn't buy it.
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What factors are contradicted? It is incredibly distict from the ordinary viewer's experience to be considering such things, I think.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 7 2015, 5:00am
Post #41 of 41
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This is something that the average viewer, who does not have a lot of time and effort invested in the books and world of Tolkien's Middle-earth, might not notice; but, I can't help it that I know the distances and travel conditions involved in the journey from Lake-town to the Lonely Mountain, and I know that the trip should have taken three days. I can accept that by pushing hard, Thorin might have reached the Mountain in two days, but one is right out.
I have a similar problem when I contemplate Legolas and Tauriel's journey to Gundabad and their return to Dale. I know that they would have had to travel at least 400 miles to reach Mount Gundabad from Lake-town and cover a similar distance from the Orc stronghold to reach Dale--most of that over difficult terrain. Under normal conditions that trip, mounted, might take around 40 days. We can assume that Legolas and Tauriel cut that down a bit due to such factors that they had Elf-bred horses and they might have been pushing their animals and themselves hard. So we can cut that time to, what, 30 days? 20 days (give or take)? Much less than that becomes absurd, but the movie does not seem to allow for three weeks or more for these events.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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