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Loresilme
Valinor
Jun 2 2015, 3:38pm
Post #1 of 36
(2041 views)
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The Bag End Auction
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I'm so glad the auction was included. Back when we were predicting what would and wouldn't be in the movie, I remember never expecting they'd be able to include the auction. I'm so glad I was totally wrong about that ! It was great to see all the supporting Hobbit characters again. And especially: Lobelia and the spoons !
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AshNazg
Gondor
Jun 2 2015, 3:53pm
Post #2 of 36
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I couldn't imagine how they could squeeze in so much at the end...
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So much had to be wrapped up and concluded that the auction just didn't seem important enough, and far too slow, to include. Having this huge, epic adventure, learning about the consequences of greed and then instead of ending on a big climax we sit through an argument over ownership of possessions? No. Yet somehow it worked. I think the main reason it worked was because PJ cut out the other (arguably) more important conclusions. With the funeral and coronation and Dale and all other ends that need to be tied up, it would have felt like RotK again and audiences would lose patience. But without those things it kept a decent pace and didn't feel like it dragged too much. We'll see how well it works in the EE - I don't mind it being a little long, but I think general viewers wouldn't accept it as much. For an EE, which is made for the fans, that's not really a problem, though.
(This post was edited by AshNazg on Jun 2 2015, 3:53pm)
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DainPig
Gondor
Jun 2 2015, 4:05pm
Post #3 of 36
(1912 views)
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It's a very funny scene! I love it!
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darthgandalf99
Registered User
Jun 2 2015, 4:07pm
Post #4 of 36
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The scene worked really well to bring the film to a close on a slightly more light hearted note. It synced it back to the tonality of the book, having diverged for most of the film.
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dormouse
Half-elven
Jun 2 2015, 4:08pm
Post #5 of 36
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When scenes I expected to see didn't happen I feared the auction would have been cut so it was a real pleasure to see the pace slow down at the end, with the journey, the conversation with Gandalf and - hooray! - the auction.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 2 2015, 7:01pm
Post #6 of 36
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Hobbit sightings at the auction
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I was hoping for two or three more named Hobbits at the auction. Checking the credits, we had: Lobelia Sackville-Baggins ... Erin Banks Otho Sackville-Baggins ... Brian Hotter Master Worrywort ... Timothy Bartlett Tosser Grubb ... Merv Smith Fatty Bolger was name-checked (although this would have had to have been the grandfather, an uncle or older cousin of the Fatty Bolger of LotR). I had some reason to believe that we could have also gotten the Mayor of Michel Delving (with actor Shane Briant rumored to have been cast in the role). And, frankly, I was hoping for cameos by Drogo Baggins and young Primula Brandybuck, the future parents of Frodo Baggins. Well, maybe in the extended edition!
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jun 2 2015, 7:03pm)
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CathrineB
Rohan
Jun 2 2015, 8:59pm
Post #7 of 36
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I can't stand Lobelia's design. I don't know there's just something about it that bugs the heck out of me And I'm usually head over heels for the designs and costumes in these movies. But that 'floating' hat... ugh. And yes, I get that it's the point to have her look like that I'm not an idiot I just don't like it. Anyway I can think of other things I would have liked to have in the movie more, but I like that it's in. The bittersweet feeling of seeing Bilbo finally home, but everything's gone and just yeah. I felt so sorry for him. He lost three friends, had to say goodbye to his dwarven friends and comes home to his home basically gone too.
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dormouse
Half-elven
Jun 2 2015, 10:53pm
Post #8 of 36
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Two things about Bilbo's return really stand out for me...
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The first thing he notices is his mother's 'glory box' being carried away - and the first time I heard that it took me straight back to Fili and Kili's arrival at Bag End, which in turn packed an emotional punch because it was a reminder that they were dead . The second is Bilbo's response to the question "Who's this Thorin Oakenshield?" As Bilbo is saying goodbye to Balin he tries to put into words what Thorin meant to him and he can't do it. "he was my.... he was my...." On the doorstep of Bag End he finds the words - "He was my friend." Lovely subtle piece of writing and acting.
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leonmuse
Rivendell
Jun 3 2015, 3:32am
Post #9 of 36
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let me go ahead and ask these questions. How old is Lobelia supposed to be in the movie when Bilbo meets her? is she like 25? and, if she is 25 at that time, then 60 years later she is 85. but her appearance isn't of someone that age when we see her at Fellowship. am i being nitpicky or is it a fair observation? thanks in advance!
__________________________________________________________ "If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. But, sad or merry, I must leave it now. Farewell."
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 3 2015, 6:09am
Post #10 of 36
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Prof. Tolkien does not seem to have assigned a year-of-birth to Lobelia Sackville-Baggins. Robert Foster, in The Complete Guide to Middle-earth, notes that she was born sometime before TA 2920 and that she died in the year 3020 at over 100 years old. Other sources state that she was born in 2918. Lobelia would have been approximately 82 years old at the time of Bilbo's elventy-first birthday in Peter Jackson's LotR:FotR. As a Hobbit, Lobelia in TA 3000 would have been equivalent to a human woman in her mid-50s. Her actress, Elizabeth Moody, turned 61 in 2001, so I would say that her appearance was bang-on!
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jun 3 2015, 6:16am)
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DanielLB
Immortal
Jun 3 2015, 6:22am
Post #11 of 36
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But that 'floating' hat... ugh. And yes, I get that it's the point to have her look like that I'm not an idiot I just don't like it. That does look ... odd!
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Arannir
Valinor
Jun 3 2015, 8:02am
Post #12 of 36
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I was glad to see it as well. The last ten minutes of BotFA are the best scenes of all three movies, imho. And feel the way the trilogy imho should have felt like in general. The sad thing is that apparantly there was only time for it by deleting almost the entire ending of the Erebor/Dale plot. (Btw: the hat of Lobelia is one of the few poor designs in these films.)
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
(This post was edited by Arannir on Jun 3 2015, 8:03am)
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dormouse
Half-elven
Jun 3 2015, 8:18am
Post #13 of 36
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The sad thing is that apparantly there was only time for it by deleting almost the entire ending of the Erebor/Dale plot. Yes, that is sad if it was a straightforward choice - this scene or this but not both - but I'd go back one stage and say the sad thing is that had it not been for the decision to keep this film shorter than all the others they could presumably have included both. In the time they had they seem to have chosen to focus on Bilbo's relationship with Thorin, which I think was a good choice, but if the film had been longer.... And we don't know why it wasn't. It's all speculation. I think there's a lot about what went on behind the scenes of these films that we don't really know.
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Arannir
Valinor
Jun 3 2015, 8:21am
Post #14 of 36
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It's all speculation. I think there's a lot about what went on behind the scenes of these films that we don't really know. Yes, though the fact remains that I think the final outcome was mediocre to bad... I'd like to believe that the studio was involved in many of the things I dislike. But in the end it doesn't matter when it comes to my overall (non-) enjoyment of these movies. They are as they are. The reason "why" they are as they are doesn't really make it better (or worse). (It matters, however, when generally speaking about PJ and his team as director, editors and screenwriters, of course. That is why I would like to believe that a lot of what happened was not entirely up to them.)
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
(This post was edited by Arannir on Jun 3 2015, 8:23am)
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dormouse
Half-elven
Jun 3 2015, 8:53am
Post #15 of 36
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... it's simply that they give me the feel of a project completed against the odds. And that's from the point of view of someone who really loves the films. I know it's an unpopular view around here now - the forum has been haemorrhaging posters who enjoy the films or just want to have fun talking about them. But I do love them - perhaps even more because I sense that the people involved had a really hard time making them happen. Sitting in the cinema, with no one else's opinion to come between me and the screen, I thoroughly enjoyed BotFA. It had me on the edge of my seat from the moment Smaug began his attack on Laketown. I don't think anyone could have bettered those opening scenes, they're amazing. A lot of things happened in a way I didn't expect, but for me that's a good thing - in principle, at least - and nothing disappointed. There are some wonderful scenes, I think, both quiet moments between characters and shots that have that pure visual beauty Peter Jackson has always achieved. The only thing that seemed odd to me on first view was the transition between the horns blowing in Dale and Bilbo saying goodbye to the dwarves. When we saw the dwarves kneeling around Thorin and the horns blowing it seemed to be a natural lead in to the funeral, or some other formal resolution between the survivors of the battle. I was bewildered when suddenly there was Bilbo saying goodbye. But his farewell to the dwarves was so perfect in itself, as were all of the closing scenes, crowned by the beautiful end titles, that I left feeling much as I did at the end of RotK - loving the film but wanting more of it. So I look forward to the EE not to 'fix' anything but simply to give me more of a film I enjoyed. I look forward to the commentaries and appendices as well, though I still sense that there's a story there we will probably never know.
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Arannir
Valinor
Jun 3 2015, 8:58am
Post #16 of 36
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And the last thing I would want is questioning your love for them
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"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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dormouse
Half-elven
Jun 3 2015, 9:35am
Post #17 of 36
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I wish there were more like you
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Bombadil
Half-elven
Jun 3 2015, 9:54am
Post #18 of 36
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One way to look @ the Auction Scene..?
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After an Adventure of Special Magnificence Bilbo returns to a simple squabble between neighbors & with his only enemy, Lobelia? Her petty greed doesn't even come close to Dragon sickness, so he has gained a Tremendous perspective on what attachments to possessions are. She would be the last person who would understand what he has just been through.. Which could be a major lesson Tolkien was trying to teach his kids, & therefore us, his readers.
www.charlie-art.biz "What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"
(This post was edited by Bombadil on Jun 3 2015, 9:55am)
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dormouse
Half-elven
Jun 3 2015, 9:57am
Post #19 of 36
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Yes, that's a good way of looking at it...
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But he still takes his spoons back!
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Kerewyn
Rohan
Jun 3 2015, 10:14am
Post #20 of 36
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Oh gosh, I did not recognise Merv Smith as Tosser Grub! " For twenty five years Merv Smith was a house-hold name as he fronted the breakfast show on Auckland’s 1ZB, New Zealand’s first commercial radio station. Thousands tuned in to the Early Bird show every morning to hear Merv, his Scottish spider friend McHairy, and his ubiquitous train whistle." I used to listen to the Early Bird show as a tiny girl, and I drew a picture of McHairy, which my mum sent to the show and he talked about on air. 20 years later, I worked for the same radio station. This Easter past, I visited Hobbiton and stood on the auction site. (am aiming to get a post together on this, when my procrastination ends)
"Then the bells shall ring in gladness at the Mountain King's return... but all shall fail in sadness, and the lake will shine and burn."
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Elarie
Grey Havens
Jun 3 2015, 11:52am
Post #21 of 36
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There were some great moments in the auction scene
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The expression on Bilbo's face and in his voice when he said that Thorin had been his friend were so moving and so sad that it really summed up everything that had happened between them. I thought it was a wonderful moment, as was the entire scene inside the empty house. I don't know how others saw that scene, but when Bilbo entered his empty house I related it to the destruction of Erebor and how Thorin must have felt when he returned to the ruins of his beloved home, and perhaps Bilbo totally understood for the first time what Thorin was feeling when he finally returned to Erebor. It was a sort of hobbit-sized 'Sacking of Bag End' by friendly but greedy hobbits and fortunately with a happier ending for Bilbo than for Thorin - paperwork and legal proceedings instead than orcs and dragons. The shift to old Bilbo at the end was really nice, too. After the first time I saw BOTFA at the theater I watched Fellowship the next day and it was a perfect bridge between the two, really nice.
__________________ Gold is the strife of kinsmen, and fire of the flood-tide, and the path of the serpent. (Old Icelandic Fe rune poem)
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Bumblingidiot
Rohan
Jun 3 2015, 12:48pm
Post #22 of 36
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PJ did tell us that Lobelia was going to appear.
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It's in the commentary for the AUJ EE disk. Given that, it just had to be the auction scene, so I was expecting it. Have to say that I think this scene, along with the (extended edition) introductions at Beorn's house are two examples of flawless adaptation of the book. Tells the same story, but in a way that fits the pace and narrative of the film. (And I like Lobelia's hat - or rather, I think it's appropriate to her character.)
"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."
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