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dormouse
Half-elven
May 31 2015, 10:49pm
Post #51 of 63
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Since when did you become the ultimate authority on how to write an adaptation?
The Master and Alfrid are both greedy, selfish and devious men. With one significant difference. The Master has what it takes to gain and hold power. In the book it's the ability to talk people round to his way of thinking. So when the survivors get angry with him by the Lake shore and want to throw him over he is able to deflect their anger onto the dwarves, whom he blames for setting the dragon on them. The Master is a politician and he knows how to play the crowd - we see a bit of that in DoS. So according to Tolkien, if the Master had survived he would still have been in charge and Bard would not contest that. And the film seems to have followed the same path since we see Bard ask where the Master is.
Alfrid doesn't have the power to sway the crowd. He is greedy, selfish, devious and weak - he needs someone powerful to latch onto. So in that sense he most certainly embodies all the things that Bard isn't. The Master has power, knows how to keep it, and would have been an obstacle to Bard's leadership. Alfrid's weakness and inability to win the crowd is what forces Bard to take over.
Would it be possible to devise a storyline using the Master instead? Yes, Tolkien did it already - I doubt anyone could better that. But it would take much longer to bring Bard to the fore and the film needed to establish his leadership quickly.
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squiggle
Rivendell
May 31 2015, 11:21pm
Post #52 of 63
(744 views)
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Bard didn't mind having authority over Alfrid in BoTF Armies, i think he enjoyed it
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He probably found it abit funny, cause otherwise Alfird proved himself pretty hopeless at actually being capable of following his instructions  .........& it may have just been as much Bard giving Alfrid his seal of protection from the rest of the townfolk (although Alfrid is too silly to appreciate this)
And this is the contrast between Alfrid with the Master and with Bard, with the Master's type of rule he was quite capable, with Bards he wasn't.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 1 2015, 5:37am
Post #53 of 63
(714 views)
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You highlight a major difference between Tolkien's The Hobbit and the movies. The Master of Lake-town survives Smaug's attack in the book, but he remains at Long Lake with the women, children, aged and injured. He does not play any role in the siege of Erebor or the Battle of Five Armies.
In TH:BotFA all of the survivors of Lake-town are moved to Dale; if the Master had survived then he would have been there as well. Keeping this in mind, I can perhaps better understand the decision to kill him off at Esgaroth and clearing the way for Bard.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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dormouse
Half-elven
Jun 1 2015, 7:23am
Post #54 of 63
(698 views)
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Once Laketown has crashed into ruins the Master has to be removed from the narrative to make way for Bard. Tolkien did it by leaving him on the shores of the Lake. But for the film, once they had decided that all the survivors would head for Dale they had to find another way to get the Master off the scene. Using Smaug to do it was simple and effective because it needed no extra story line - we saw it happen.
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DanielLB
Immortal
Jun 1 2015, 9:09am
Post #55 of 63
(691 views)
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Of course many people found Alfrid annoying, but even them will be satisfied with his death. They'll just need to buy the EE to get a cure for their annoyment 
I'd be more satisfied if the extended edition of The Battle of the Five Armies did not contain any more scenes of Alfrid. The reputed death scene makes me cringe.
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Michelle Johnston
Rohan
Jun 1 2015, 12:22pm
Post #56 of 63
(663 views)
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O/S and D/M you are of course both correct. For the Master to survive and live on his wits (as DM has described perfectly) would have worked but only if he had remained behind at the Lake with the non combatants to "protect" his people and of course the gold. He would have bided his time and then fallen fowl of his avariciousness.
I will be interested to hear the reason from the film makers for emphasising the saving of the gold other than its obvious relativism with his people. It may have been intended to be a propulsion for a longer arc for the master.
I know a little about the filming at Lake Pukaki and when we have seen the EE it might be worth re visiting this topic. PJ and PB may well explain in their commentary how Bard's arc evolved and at least we will then have a chance to respond to their thinking once we know what it was.
My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.
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dormouse
Half-elven
Jun 1 2015, 3:41pm
Post #58 of 63
(631 views)
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I didn't mind him in DoS, was OK with him at first in BotFA - at least at the Lake shore I think he serves a purpose.
But I could do without some of his later scenes and have no interest in seeing more of him.
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Elanor of Rohan
Lorien
Jun 1 2015, 4:27pm
Post #59 of 63
(612 views)
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Why can't he just disappear in the background of Dale reconstruction?
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 1 2015, 6:25pm
Post #60 of 63
(597 views)
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Do you really expect to see much in the way of rebuilding in the context of the movie? It's already winter; I'll be surprised if we see more than some hasty repairs.
I also would rather see no more Alfrid than the final scene for him that has been described. I would have liked to see something similar to the fate that Tolkien weaved for the Master (possibly with a cameo by Gollum).
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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Elanor of Rohan
Lorien
Jun 1 2015, 6:46pm
Post #61 of 63
(592 views)
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I meant that once Bard is crowned he will do something to rebuild the town. I didn't mean they had to show anything of the kind in the EE. Maybe imply it but nothing more. His story Line (quite a long one) is already over for me
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squiggle
Rivendell
Jun 2 2015, 5:50am
Post #62 of 63
(561 views)
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Alrid has more potential for an Arc than the Master
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the Master while a good laugh, he was more set in his ways than Alfrid.
There was part of Alfrid that didn't know better compared to the Master, the Master was abit that way toward the end but that was him being a politician, even to himself.
With Alfrid, it was more a case of him being a hapless dork, hehe 
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KingTurgon
Rohan
Jun 5 2015, 9:23pm
Post #63 of 63
(503 views)
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I didn't outright dislike either of them though, and I like Jar Jar. But I do think the Master would have been better in the role as the OP suggests.
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