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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
May 28 2015, 4:16pm
Post #26 of 49
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Kings don't normally do that. Legolas can't be there because he's already gone, but if Thranduil is - and I think he should be - he'll be attended by at least some of his people.
I'm guessing the assumption is based on the book, where Thranduil does attend. In the legendarium Bilbo and Gandalf leave Erebor with the Elvenking and his host (and also Beorn). But. is it really that unusual for a head of state to attend the funeral of another head of state, especially if he is already in the region?
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on May 28 2015, 4:25pm)
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arithmancer
Grey Havens
May 28 2015, 4:21pm
Post #27 of 49
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Surely it is logical reason to suppose she would be interested in attending?
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dormouse
Half-elven
May 28 2015, 4:24pm
Post #28 of 49
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That it would be unusual for a king to attend alone. Kings normally have attendants round them all the time.
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Shagrat
Gondor
May 28 2015, 4:24pm
Post #29 of 49
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Not if she is uncomfortable with the idea of the Dwarves burying Kili according to their custom
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Maybe such a thing would be too much for her and she'd prefer not to see it. Would anyone really question her not being there *that* much?
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arithmancer
Grey Havens
May 28 2015, 4:27pm
Post #30 of 49
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If no Elves are there probably not.
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But if there are some (e.g. Thranduil and some officers of his military), probably.
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Roheryn1
The Shire
May 28 2015, 6:46pm
Post #31 of 49
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And Thorin I think doesn't have Orcrist per se - but sorrowfully, someone has to walk across ice and pull the sword, e.g. "witness" what Thorin must have done. Dwalin? Thranduil? Legolas? Balin?
Ha ! I've already written THAT fan-fic.  |
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lionoferebor
Rohan
May 28 2015, 11:35pm
Post #32 of 49
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I was somewhat Hopeful Holly...
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... I would have hoped all these complaints have reached them, but even if they have I doubt it'll change anything. They had two movies after AUJ to up Fili more and one extended edition without that having done anything at all. They don't care. Why would they start now when the story is over anyway? Frankly I feel PJ & Co are just so focused on elves now I'm not about to start hoping for the unexpected now only to be floored by disappointment YET again. I can't take that.
now I'm Pesstimistic Polly. 
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Milieuterrien
Rohan
May 29 2015, 9:17am
Post #33 of 49
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I like the word.
(This post was edited by entmaiden on May 29 2015, 1:58pm)
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Milieuterrien
Rohan
May 29 2015, 2:45pm
Post #34 of 49
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I like the word but my post has been edited by something else than me.
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Now I'm postimistic 
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Glorfindela
Valinor
May 29 2015, 11:28pm
Post #35 of 49
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I suspect they will do another inexplicable disappearing act, as they did at Helm's Deep…
(The only identifiable Elves I would like to see, if such a thing is possible, are Thranduil and some of his warriors, Legolas having departed at last, thank God, and Turiel being away blubbering somewhere else.)
Which characters will be at the funeral and which characters will not.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
May 29 2015, 11:53pm
Post #36 of 49
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Digression: Elves at Helm's Deep
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I suspect they will do another inexplicable disappearing act, as they did at Helm's Deep…
I never saw a mystery there. The Elves at Helm's Deep (other than Legolas) were all killed. That's why we don't see them again.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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Avandel
Half-elven
May 30 2015, 12:32am
Post #37 of 49
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Well, if you look at the original and larger, I think I can pick out Dwalin, Bifur, Gloin, and Dori - with Beorn to the very far left.
And weirdly that looks like Fili standing there from the back, so I guess this funeral is REALLY just some of Dain's fallen officers.
And later on, we see Thorin's coronation and there's a really big party.....
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Glorfindela
Valinor
May 30 2015, 9:19am
Post #38 of 49
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I always thought it was nonsense that ALL the Elves at Helm's Deep were apparently killed (though this was never stated), yet our three heroes, who were on the ramparts with the Elves, as well as human defenders, miraculously survived.
This is one of the things that has always bothered me about the LotR films (no matter what justification/explanation has been given by apologists).
I suspect they will do another inexplicable disappearing act, as they did at Helm's Deep… I never saw a mystery there. The Elves at Helm's Deep (other than Legolas) were all killed. That's why we don't see them again. |
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CathrineB
Rohan
May 30 2015, 10:11am
Post #39 of 49
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I always thought it was nonsense that ALL the Elves at Helm's Deep were apparently killed (though this was never stated), yet our three heroes, who were on the ramparts with the Elves, as well as human defenders, miraculously survived. This is one of the things that has always bothered me about the LotR films (no matter what justification/explanation has been given by apologists). I suspect they will do another inexplicable disappearing act, as they did at Helm's Deep… I never saw a mystery there. The Elves at Helm's Deep (other than Legolas) were all killed. That's why we don't see them again.
I think it's absurd how all the elves at Helm's Deep died (and how many died in BotfA because didn't seem like any was left on the field itself and there weren't many following Thranduil in Dale).
They're supposed to be among the best warriors of Middle Earth? It gives pretty much the complete oposite impression of that exactly when more non-warrior fishermen (or Edoras men in LotR) seem to make it out of there
(This post was edited by CathrineB on May 30 2015, 10:14am)
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Glorfindela
Valinor
May 30 2015, 10:48am
Post #40 of 49
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I think the film-makers didn't deem it necessary to explain the miraculous disappearance of Elves at Helm's Deep, perhaps because it would have involved further elaboration of the story (whether some Elves had been left or not). I think it turned out as a pretty major plot hole.
When it comes to the third Hobbit film, it is hard to say whether any Elves were left at the end or not, because we didn't really see the end of the battle, or a proper end to the film, e.g. funeral. There were just a load of humans standing around with glum faces listening to horns playing at the end – and it is uncertain what, exactly, they were doing there. Another plot hole, among several major ones in this film, I feel…
I think it's absurd how all the elves at Helm's Deep died (and how many died in BotfA because didn't seem like any was left on the field itself and there weren't many following Thranduil in Dale). They're supposed to be among the best warriors of Middle Earth? It gives pretty much the complete oposite impression of that exactly when more non-warrior fishermen (or Edoras men in LotR) seem to make it out of there |
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dernwyn
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
May 30 2015, 1:29pm
Post #41 of 49
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is so huge...that a River runs through it. 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
May 30 2015, 1:47pm
Post #42 of 49
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Helm's Deep is my favorite fight scene in all the LoTR movies, and I never thought about the Elves "disappearing." I'm pretty sure they were all killed, from the look on Halidar's face when he looked around while dying and saw so many of his fallen brothers. Also, I think there were only about 300 of them? Not many Edoras citizen's survived, either - most of those at the end of the movie were the Rohirrim.
Now, Thranduil's army appeared to number in the thousands, and he DID order his guard to recall his company. Yes, there were certainly surviving Elves, and they were leaving. It does appear that quite a few of the ones who followed Thranduil into Dale died defending their awesome King, and there were plenty of dead Laketowners as well. I don't know how many Orcs were attacking, if there were 10,000 like Helm's Deep, but they did appear to outnumber both Elves and Dwarves, even before Bolg's army showed up.
In fact, the ones that "disappeared" to me were the Iron Hills Dwarves - figures.
Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association
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Avandel
Half-elven
May 30 2015, 5:58pm
Post #43 of 49
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Well, yeah - for Thorin's "coronation party barge", courtesy of Thranduil.
I well up, just thinking of all the warm and fuzzies! And then when Thorin pulls Fili and Kili aside, with Bard and Dain and Bilbo, and explains he is only going to stay at Erebor for a little while, and then pass the crown to Fili and then spend some time in the Shire, and the Blue Mountains...
and tells Fili to remember what is really important, and give Fili the acorn - it's a stab to the heart, in the best possible way. 
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MatthewJer18
Rohan
May 30 2015, 5:59pm
Post #44 of 49
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I wouldn't mind Tauriel attending and having a minimal role as part of Thranduil's guard
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Then again, I don't have the same hatred for the character that so many on this board seem to. I recently rewatched BotFA and gained a new appreciation for Lilly's rich performance (I don't care how widely disliked it is, that final scene with Kili's body was perfectly performed), even if the writing occasionally let her down. One of my favorites in the film.
(This post was edited by MatthewJer18 on May 30 2015, 6:00pm)
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Kim
Valinor
May 30 2015, 6:12pm
Post #45 of 49
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Yes, indeedy. Complete with party barge, mixed drinks and water sports. All aboard!
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Milieuterrien
Rohan
May 30 2015, 7:08pm
Post #46 of 49
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Given the TE, I don't see Tauriel among Thranduils guards
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Nor do I see Thranduil present at the funerals, even if, according to the book, he is.
Though I'm not really sure, first because of the book, and second because in fact all depends on Dain. The new Dwarf Lord has an important role to play in celebrating some reconciliation between Elves and Dwarves. But he might not do so, because he insulted Thranduil about his smirk before the battle began.
In the Book, Thorin changes totally his mind between the moment he wanted to throw Bilbo over the wall and the moment he apologizes for doing so, but we're left to wonder exactly why, for nothing really comes to explain it - in the movie this shift is abundantly explained, on the gold floor.
But also, in the TE, Thorin's apologies are adressed to Bilbo alone for there are nobody around, not even the other dwarves, who arrive a little bit later. We don't see any exchange of looks between him and Thranduil.
So we can't really know, at the moment I write those lines, if and how the reconciliation will happen.Surely the EE will tell, and I guess that the premises of the reconciliation will begin to happen during the battle. (That may be, for instance, the purpose of the alleged scene between Thranduil and Gloin on the battlefield)
That could explain why the TE was so short, because if you are beginning with premises, you have to go through their accomplishment.
About Tauriel, I guess she may be not inside Erebor, but at the gate, mourning and cherishing altogether.
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Avandel
Half-elven
May 30 2015, 9:24pm
Post #47 of 49
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There would have been fireworks, too...
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Except Gandalf wasn't used to the potency of dwarf chemicals and Radagast's staff.
It was said the resulting explosion that burst from the depths of Erebor could be seen all the way to the Misty Mountains.
Thorin, however, in a supremely good mood thanks to the attention of his fang-gir-iells (who had arrived in droves for the barge party), merely commented that, while he appreciated Gandalf filling his chambers with light in a veritable rainbow of colors, winter WAS coming, and it probably wasn't the best time to construct an open-air atrium.
Dain tho thought it was the funniest thing he had ever seen.
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Ilmatar
Rohan
May 31 2015, 10:35pm
Post #48 of 49
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Thorin, however, in a supremely good mood thanks to the attention of his fang-gir-iells (who had arrived in droves for the barge party), merely commented that, while he appreciated Gandalf filling his chambers with light in a veritable rainbow of colors, winter WAS coming, and it probably wasn't the best time to construct an open-air atrium.
I can see it now...
That open-air atrium could be put to good use in spring - put a glass ceiling on top, and the Erebor dwarves have their own greenhouse sheltered from the elements, maybe for growing pipe-weed. Or learn beekeeping from Beorn and plant a meadow there, producing honey for the famed Erebor mead. 
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DainPig
Gondor
Jun 1 2015, 11:21pm
Post #49 of 49
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Laketown people won't be there, I'm sure of it. Will be a coronation on Dale while the funeral is happening.
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