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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Funeral
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Smaug the iron
Gondor

May 27 2015, 6:26pm

Post #1 of 49 (2837 views)
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Funeral Can't Post

Which characters will be at the funeral and which characters will not.


Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor


May 27 2015, 6:51pm

Post #2 of 49 (2677 views)
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Bilbo & Gandalf for sure [In reply to] Can't Post

I think Tauriel would WANT to be there. Assuming they stay closer to the book, Bard should be there to put the Arkenstone on Thorin's chest, but Thorin already has Orchrist. Still, it would be cool if Thranduil (or even Legolas, who took it from him) would be the one to put it in his coffin.

Not sure if any of the Laketowners will be there - they have their own dead to bury.Unsure Not that I believe there WAS a funeral...but let's not turn this into another River of Denial thread.

Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association


Goldeneye
Lorien


May 27 2015, 6:59pm

Post #3 of 49 (2667 views)
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Tauriel [In reply to] Can't Post

I expect to see another long, drawn out scene in which Tauriel blubbers over Kili's body. And poor Fili will once again be ignored completely.


Avandel
Half-elven


May 27 2015, 8:19pm

Post #4 of 49 (2616 views)
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*snigger* [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Not that I believe there WAS a funeral...but let's not turn this into another River of Denial thread.


LOL. Well there is, tho POSSIBLY the Durins are watching their own funeral, because re the SCALE issue, what we we see maybe be stand-ins of a kind.
Er. Cool

Tho seriously I imagine re canon this SHOULD be a HUGE thing to the dwarves re the importance of a dwarf king and the line of Durin and the Durins' heroism so IT WOULD BE NICE if the cameras focused on DWARVES MOURNING. Lots of dwarves.

And Thorin I think doesn't have Orcrist per se - but sorrowfully, someone has to walk across ice and pull the sword, e.g. "witness" what Thorin must have done. Dwalin? Thranduil? Legolas? Balin?

And oh, yeah, guess someone should go and see about Fili. Not like he was the heir, or anything.Unimpressed




Avandel
Half-elven


May 27 2015, 8:47pm

Post #5 of 49 (2597 views)
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Yes [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
I expect to see another long, drawn out scene in which Tauriel blubbers over Kili's body. And poor Fili will once again be ignored completely.


*Gloomily* - well, it will never be a scene I personally watch to any degree, but PJ & co. ARE capable of exquisite work - the entry to Erebor, the "if this is to end in fire", Thorin and Bilbo.

And RA has had good things to say about that scene, and I trust his intellect, integrity, and sense of aesthetic - IMO his comments about the scenes that ended up in the DOS EE and about his Thorin/Kili moments re BOFA I thought to be completely accurate.

But, since I will watch the scene - even if not often - I hope at least for Thranduil's presence as the "dominant" elf there, for Beorn, for Dain and the dwarves, Bilbo. Heck, I'm not even sure how I feel about Gandalf being there, since "he started this" and the Durins are all gone now (oops, that's another thread...)
But Sir Ian has a wonderful voice and presence, re the speeches RA mentions.

And since I personally dread any more of Tauriel's tearsUnimpressed, or any more Legolas/Tauriel being stuffed in - e.g. the evidently supposed-to-be gut-wrenching emotion from those two that never works for meUnsure - well, tho - unfortunately I think you are right.Unimpressed

That more camera time will be devoted to Legolas/Tauriel face shots than on Fili, or someone speaking of Fili. Like Fili's last words were to tell his uncle and king to run...

I suppose it's too much to hope for that some online grumblings re Fili and dwarflessness - reached PJ & co. and will be reflected re the final editing processUnsure. Not when comments are made from PJ and Philippa that Tauriel is the character they would like to do a "bridge film" with. *Sigh*.Unimpressed

And another *horrible* thought - will this funeral be whipped through at lightning speed, re PJ's "short and snappy" approach to BOFA? Unimpressed






CathrineB
Rohan


May 27 2015, 9:52pm

Post #6 of 49 (2552 views)
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I can see it now... [In reply to] Can't Post

The funeral scene. Close up on Thorin and Kili with people mourning them, but Fili's like just there in the background like he's always been. I mean it's fairly obvious by now that Fili is not important to them. We hoped so for DoS - but nope. We hoped for more in BotfA - but nope. There is nothing that really says there's reason to have any more hope for any more focus on Fili in the EE either. Just not going to happen and it's frustrating as heck.

And if we get even more of Tauriel wee tears over a dwarf she knew for less than two days I'm going to throw a fit.


(This post was edited by CathrineB on May 27 2015, 9:52pm)


Never_Underestimate_A_Dwarf
Rivendell


May 27 2015, 9:57pm

Post #7 of 49 (2549 views)
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Please no [In reply to] Can't Post

If Tauriel is at the funeral, I'm never watching BOTFA again. She had her moment to "mourn" her true love and soulmate of approximately 2 days.

The filmmakers don't care about Fili so they expect that we don't, either.


Bombadil
Half-elven


May 27 2015, 11:08pm

Post #8 of 49 (2503 views)
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Expect the Unexpected, that's Bomby's Mantra../// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"


lionoferebor
Rohan

May 27 2015, 11:37pm

Post #9 of 49 (2503 views)
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Grumblings over ROTK [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
I suppose it's too much to hope for that some online grumblings re Fili and dwarflessness - reached PJ & co. and will be reflected re the final editing processUnsure. Not when comments are made from PJ and Philippa that Tauriel is the character they would like to do a "bridge film" with. *Sigh*.Unimpressed


I keep thinking back to 2003 when audiences groaned over the multiple endings of Return of the King and how PJ was adamant the final Hobbit film would have one ending. Though what we ended up with was one ending and a handful of unfinished story linesUnsure...but that's for another discussion. Somehow - despite not having the abundance of social media outlets we do today (i.e. Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, etc.) - the grumblings surrounding ROTK's multiple endings did reach PJ and co. So, I see little reason to believe the disatisfaction in the lack of Fili and the other dwarves would not reach them as well.

I think the real question is: How will PJ and co. respond to audiences asking for more Fili and the other dwarves? I would really like to think/hope they will at least attempt to answer, but deep down I have to agree with you and some of the other posters on this thread...that they probably won't. Unimpressed

Though I swear if we get more Alfrid, Legolas, and/or Tauriel (especially Tauriel/Kili) in place of more dwarves I will have a fit.


CathrineB
Rohan


May 27 2015, 11:56pm

Post #10 of 49 (2494 views)
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I'm Negative Nancy now, but.. [In reply to] Can't Post

... I would have hoped all these complaints have reached them, but even if they have I doubt it'll change anything. They had two movies after AUJ to up Fili more and one extended edition without that having done anything at all. They don't care. Why would they start now when the story is over anyway? Frankly I feel PJ & Co are just so focused on elves now I'm not about to start hoping for the unexpected now only to be floored by disappointment YET again. I can't take that.


Mooseboy018
Grey Havens


May 28 2015, 12:02am

Post #11 of 49 (2485 views)
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Legolas [In reply to] Can't Post

Legolas already left, so he won't be at the funeral.


Adrianna
Lorien


May 28 2015, 12:43am

Post #12 of 49 (2472 views)
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Mmm! [In reply to] Can't Post

I know Dain his cousin and the rest of dwarves should be there.

Bilbo will definitely be there. Gandalf, Thranduil and Baird.

Tauriel will probably be there because of Kili but hopefully they wouldn't give to much more screen time for her.

I would agree Legolas will not be there. He would be already gone.

"I did free him. I freed his wretched head from his miserable shoulders."


Avandel
Half-elven


May 28 2015, 1:57am

Post #13 of 49 (2450 views)
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There is one...maybe two [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
There is nothing that really says there's reason to have any more hope for any more focus on Fili in the EE either.


The chariot scene. Which I guess no-one knows what that is about, but evidently with Balin driving at least there is some hope for Fili AS THE OLDER BROTHER WHO IS A BADASS WITH TWO SWORDS (although given access to an entire armory of finely crafted weaponry he suddenly seems to have decided to travel light, even being in more danger than he has ever been in - for that matter, I find it hard to believe all the dwarves didn't have extra knives tucked in their bootsUnsure).

Some sort of rumored scene with Bilbo.

Tho I hafta agree, at least with what few interviews there were re the EE - there's been no hint or acknowledgement of BOFA's editing. No-one saying - not even a hint - that the dwarves might be a concern.

A good thing? A bad thing? But if I were super rich, with money to burn, I swear I'd hire one of those advertising planes to fly over WETA, with a banner saying "More Fili in the EE! More dwarves in the EE!"Cool

New Zealanders might enjoy the spectacle, because are not many of the sidelined dwarves New Zealanders? So New Zealand is a "hallmark" of PJ's Hobbit films, and evidently having so many dwarves come from there was a source of pride.Unsure


Quote

And if we get even more of Tauriel wee tears over a dwarf she knew for less than two days I'm going to throw a fit.


Don't know whether to laugh or cry at this. Two days, and Kili was out of it part of the time anywayCrazy. But I will take bets that some dreadful cheese is a possibility - think of it:

The stone is laid on Thorin's breast, glowing softly, his handsome face at peace at last, Bilbo fighting back tears, Beorn's face harsh and sad, some of the dwarves openly crying, Orcrist glittering in the candlelight, Fili's hair shimmering gold, maybe bound with a circlet crown - AND

Yep, we've got Tauriel getting her screen time in, with Kili's stone and MORE tears "because it was real", and Thranduil comforts her and takes her back to Mirkwood, so moved has he been by the pure true love and courage of his young wardUnimpressed. I suspect that Tauriel may be one of the "loose ends" that PJ and Philippa were talking about. Seeing as she is such a favorite with the filmmakers. Unimpressed









Mooseboy018
Grey Havens


May 28 2015, 2:36am

Post #14 of 49 (2437 views)
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Tauriel [In reply to] Can't Post

If Tauriel has any lines during the funeral, I hope Dain tells her to go away. Very politely of course.Wink


CathrineB
Rohan


May 28 2015, 10:08am

Post #15 of 49 (2335 views)
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Yeah but [In reply to] Can't Post

I know of the chariot scene, but I mean scenes focused on Fili where he isn't in the background. Those kind of scenes I don't think we get. That is going to make up for the lack of him otherwise.

And the rumored Bilbo and Fili scene I doubt we'll ever see seeing as there is a whole lot of scenes we have heard talked about in the previous movies but never ever seen. We'll get a Bofur and Bilbo scene I'm sure, but I doubt anything with Fili will show up.

This is one of the occasions I really want to be wrong though Crazy


Milieuterrien
Rohan

May 28 2015, 12:39pm

Post #16 of 49 (2288 views)
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Many funerals to dispatch [In reply to] Can't Post

Dwarves, Elves and Men (for the latters : in Dale AND in Esgaroth).

Most probably, they won't invite each other as a whole to the mourning, but only some representatives.

- Thranduil might not be there because 1) In PJ's version, he wanted to quit in Dale 2) He hasn't any sword nor Arkenstone to give back to the dwarves 3) He didn't like dwarves and especially Thorin didn't like him, so many Dwarves would object to his coming... and I can't really imagine Dain invite him after his speech about his 'smirk'.

On the other hand, Thranduil has his claim and he won't give it up so he'll have to meet Dain about it. Dain might be reluctant but if Thranduil asks for nothing more, the Dwarf might accept this gift as the right price for Elves' blood in the battle. But that doesn't mean that Thranduil will be invited to the funerals.

- Bard might not be there as well because he opposed to the return of the King Under the Mountain and almost joined Thranduil against the Dwarves to claim a share of the treasure ; plus he also has to deal with Men's funerals in Dale and Esgaroth.

On the other hand, he did help the dwarves with his barge (even if he was paid for it) he did help to cure Kili, accepting him in his home, and most of all he did help the dwarves by killing Smaug. If he gives back the Arkenstone to call a share of the treasure, as he doesn't have any conflict with Dain he might be accepted as a representative of the Men during the funerals.

- Bilbo will be there as will all the dwarves. The company will surely become the servants of the funerals, Balin leading the ceremony

- Dain and the survivors of his army will be there as well. I guess Dain will be the one to put the Arkenstone on Thorin's chest, and Dwalin will be the one to put the elvish sword alongside the body.

- (We know that) Beorn will be there because he helped to win the battle against the second orc army and he helped the dwarves on their way to Mirkwood

- Gandalf might be there because he started the reconquest of the Mountain and helped the dwarves against the Trolls, the Goblins and the Wargs, and gave them Bilbo for the helping

- Radagast might be there because he brought the Eagles earning the victory, and helped the Dwarves to reach Rivendell

- Tauriel might be there because no other elf come close to her with her helping to save the Durin's line : she was the one who saved Kili's life, as Bofur as well as Oin can tell. Oin for one is not an enemy of the Elves, because he was the only one Dwarf to say it's a privilege to assist Elvish medecine. Tauriel was also the first Elf to come in help on Ravenhill... and Legolas is gone.

That's all I count.


Shagrat
Gondor

May 28 2015, 1:51pm

Post #17 of 49 (2280 views)
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Well [In reply to] Can't Post

If this image is correct we can expect Beorn, Radagast and Gandalf, along with of course the Dwarves (Bilbo will be there too obviously). As it seems to take place deep in the heart of Erebor, I expect the surrounding crowd to be the Dwarves of the Iron Hills. I'd be very peeved if any Elves were there, except for Thranduil. The Laketowners might be in attendance, especially Bard, but then I wonder why they'd all be in Dale looking on and playing the Erebor 'theme' tribute in the TC if this were the case:




(This post was edited by dernwyn on May 28 2015, 4:08pm)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


May 28 2015, 2:18pm

Post #18 of 49 (2251 views)
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Image too big. [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm sorry to say, that image is much too large. I expect that a mod will be doing something about that at some point.

"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock


dormouse
Half-elven


May 28 2015, 3:05pm

Post #19 of 49 (2226 views)
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Why would you expect Thranduil to be there with none of his people? [In reply to] Can't Post

Kings don't normally do that. Legolas can't be there because he's already gone, but if Thranduil is - and I think he should be - he'll be attended by at least some of his people.


Shagrat
Gondor

May 28 2015, 3:12pm

Post #20 of 49 (2213 views)
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Well a few guards perhaps... [In reply to] Can't Post

But I think you know I was referring specifically to Legolas and especially Tauriel. They have no place there - the latter would only ruin the scene entirely.


dormouse
Half-elven


May 28 2015, 3:33pm

Post #21 of 49 (2193 views)
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Well yes.... [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought you probably meant Tauriel....

I would like the elves to be there because I would like to see Thranduil return Orcrist as he does in the book, as a sign of reconciliation. If they're not, they're not, but right now I'd like it if they were.


Shagrat
Gondor

May 28 2015, 3:45pm

Post #22 of 49 (2183 views)
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Well that's why I mentioned Thranduil [In reply to] Can't Post

It may be that just Thranduil and Bard are permitted to attend for reasons of bequeathing 'treasures' to Thorin, as a mark of respect for their people.


dormouse
Half-elven


May 28 2015, 4:03pm

Post #23 of 49 (2171 views)
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Fair enough.... [In reply to] Can't Post

... but if he is, I don't think they'll be able to resist including Tauriel.

It wouldn't bother me if she is there - given her story in the film in would make sense. But I know a lot of people won't like it. Others will probably be saying 'where's Tauriel?' if she isn't. She's said her farewells, though, so she might just be in the crowd.


Shagrat
Gondor

May 28 2015, 4:08pm

Post #24 of 49 (2168 views)
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That she has an expressed concern with them burying Kili [In reply to] Can't Post

Would be sufficient enough excuse for her not being in attendance IMO


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


May 28 2015, 4:09pm

Post #25 of 49 (2165 views)
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Resized. [In reply to] Can't Post

But I wish I could lighten it a bit, it's quite dark.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I desired dragons with a profound desire"



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