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Glorfindela
Valinor
May 24 2015, 12:06am
Post #26 of 132
(822 views)
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One the other hand, one thing I would have liked not to see in the movie is Stephen Fry obliged to eat buttocks, for I think the actor really hated it and the story didn't need it at all.
SF was made to eat 'testicles' (not buttocks) in as disgusting a way as possible. A revolting scene and a horrible way to treat an actor, just so you can indulge your self-indulgent fantasies…
And oh, so very Tolkien…
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Morthoron
Gondor
May 24 2015, 12:14am
Post #28 of 132
(819 views)
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Funny thing about camera angles...
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To make a PG-13 feature, one can film a bear ripping up an orc without showing hardly any gore. Great directors can imply just about anything, but it requires subtlety. The shower scene in Psycho was masterful, but not once did Hitchcock show the knife touching skin. Besides, considering the amount of gratuitous violence Jackson added in, your argument is as flimsy as a gnat's wing.
But you are arguing a point simply because you are unable or unwilling to admit that Jackson once again opted for inflated (and gravity-defying) fan-fiction rather than employ an actual point of the original plot, that Beorn attacked the orcs and rent them asunder. Beorn, a favorite character of many in the book and also from the film, received about 5 seconds of film time during the battle, and that is asinine, particularly when the Legolas/Bolg combat was visually ridiculous and completely unnecessary in telling the story of The Hobbit.
Please visit my blog...The Dark Elf File...a slighty skewed journal of music and literary comment, fan-fiction and interminable essays.
(This post was edited by Morthoron on May 24 2015, 12:14am)
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Smaug the iron
Gondor
May 24 2015, 12:19am
Post #29 of 132
(814 views)
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have more screen time in BOTFA then Tom Bombadil ever had!
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Morthoron
Gondor
May 24 2015, 12:24am
Post #30 of 132
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What exactly has that to do with anything?
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Is there a point you are trying to make, because I don't see it, frankly. Are you saying that an omission from a previous movie makes it alright to slight another character later on? Or are you saying that you are just used to Jackson making things up as he goes along?
Please visit my blog...The Dark Elf File...a slighty skewed journal of music and literary comment, fan-fiction and interminable essays.
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Smaug the iron
Gondor
May 24 2015, 12:34am
Post #31 of 132
(812 views)
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for a Beorn cameo but you know he has cut out many characters before and replace it whit someone else so be happy with what you get.
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AshNazg
Gondor
May 24 2015, 12:39am
Post #32 of 132
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People were annoyed about Tom Bombadil's exclusion too...
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And luckily the rest of the films were good enough to forgive that minor omission. But The Hobbit didn't just remove Beorn (who is much more integral to the story than Bombadil) they replaced him with a character that shouldn't even be there.
The reason people have more of a problem with Beorn is because it was just one of such a huge number of unnecessary alterations. If they cut Beorn entirely (like Rankin/Bass did) people would be disappointed, but would probably understand it was for the sake of pacing. But to replace a character is just insulting and slightly confusing.
I would like to bring up a weird mirror to this, though. Which is that Arwen replaced Glorfindel in Fellowship of the Ring and no-one really had a big problem. Also in Bakshi's Lord of the Rings Glorfindel (like PJ's Beorn) is replaced by Legolas, and I quite like that change. But I guess it's less of a problem because Legolas is actually a part of that story.
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Morthoron
Gondor
May 24 2015, 12:47am
Post #33 of 132
(804 views)
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Sorry, that is not the correct answer...
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As I stated elsewhere, I understood why Jackson omitted Bombadil from FotR. It was a matter of time compression, and, thankfully, he did not add in fan-fiction nonsense to take its place. Jackson could not have added in Bombadil for five seconds and have it make any sense.
Beorn, however, was one of the prime reasons that the orcs were defeated in the Battle of Five Armies in the book. Watching him being airlifted by an eagle and plopped on orcs like Smokie the Bomb for the few seconds of film he was shown, but then adding in a gratuitous Legolas-action-figure scene that dragged on for several minutes was nonsense.
So you can blithely say "be happy with what you get", because you are obviously happy for anything that's flung on the screen. If something is nonsensical, I'll point it out.
Please visit my blog...The Dark Elf File...a slighty skewed journal of music and literary comment, fan-fiction and interminable essays.
(This post was edited by Morthoron on May 24 2015, 1:00am)
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Smaug the iron
Gondor
May 24 2015, 12:57am
Post #34 of 132
(797 views)
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I understand and respekt your opinion.
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I had no problem with Legolas but I understand why you have. I am just happy we did see anything of Beorn.
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AshNazg
Gondor
May 24 2015, 1:01am
Post #35 of 132
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Be happy with what PJ force feeds you!
Last time you asked for a roast he forgot the peas and you were content. Now you ask for an extra helping of vegetables, he's given you another full roast (with too much stuffing) and has replaced the potatoes with broccoli and you suddenly have a problem! Just because dish is poorly prepared and barely resembles a roast at all, it doesn't mean you have to be picky.
Just remember, you could be having no roast at all. So be thankful for what PJ gives you and stop having tastes or opinions on the matter. It could always be worse; you could be eating Michael Bay's Eton Mess.
(This post was edited by AshNazg on May 24 2015, 1:11am)
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squiggle
Rivendell
May 24 2015, 1:06am
Post #36 of 132
(794 views)
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I Get the 'slapstick' in the Hobbit movies & now can take the slapstick in LoTRs in a new fashion
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As the more apocalyptic density that sweept through the latter LoTR episodes i struggled with in relation to their climatic battle scenes, which often had decent helpings of slapstick.
From the Hobbit trilogy those LoTR moments will now be more overall middle earth arc tapestry in their cinema, and the un-reality of moments in the battles being taken as showing character attributes and just cinematic entertainment rather as be all and end all dramatics.
Legolas fighting stunts for example, he is akin to an Elve Jedi or Superhero, among the Elves as is Tauriel, and this also expressive of backstory and history of who the character is, & i like this, it gives variety and opportunity for fun spectacle watching _ Doesn't mean i like absolutely everything, could have done without the daggers driving brain of big Troll but that is part of PJ's early wild cinema Genre.
I liked the Goblin tunnel stuff in AUJ. I see more of these type of elements in the middle earth films as rompy interludes and elements and meant to be watched in this way or at least able to be, in a way that a song or dance number is in a film. 
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Mooseboy018
Grey Havens
May 24 2015, 1:30am
Post #37 of 132
(781 views)
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People can have differing opinions
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"But criticize for the sake of the right to criticize feels pointless."
So any time someone criticizes anything it's just for the sake of criticizing something? I love the movies overall, but I think their treatment of Beorn was a mistake. He was a unique character that only appears in the Hobbit. And instead of spending some extra time to develop him and give him a final showdown with Bolg, which they were originally building up to, they gave us more Legolas. Legolas already had his chance to shine in The Lord of the Rings. I'm fine with him being in The Hobbit, but his role didn't end up adding much to the story and took up time that other characters could have had. It just felt like such a waste and a missed opportunity.
(This post was edited by entmaiden on May 24 2015, 3:46pm)
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Bombadil
Half-elven
May 24 2015, 2:44am
Post #38 of 132
(780 views)
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This THREAD is Like an OUT-OF-CONTROL Oldsmobile..?
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NOT sure if anyone is gunna WIN?
"OPINION WARS"...
www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"
(This post was edited by Bombadil on May 24 2015, 2:46am)
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Milieuterrien
Rohan
May 24 2015, 3:32am
Post #39 of 132
(1055 views)
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They flock here like a swarm, always bashing the same thing the same way.
An explanation can be that they feel strong seing people fleeing around
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Mooseboy018
Grey Havens
May 24 2015, 4:08am
Post #40 of 132
(1051 views)
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Ignoring all constructive criticism and labeling it as "bashing" doesn't add much to the discussion either. There's a difference between "bashing" and "criticizing." You can like something without blindly accepting every single thing about it. Hearing people say things like "the movie is the way it is and we should never say anything bad about it just because," can be just as tiresome as endless bashing.
(This post was edited by Mooseboy018 on May 24 2015, 4:10am)
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Bombadil
Half-elven
May 24 2015, 4:45am
Post #41 of 132
(1034 views)
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"Wordsmithing" is just like Any ARTFORM?
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Some got it?
Some don't.
WHY we Love TOLKIEN {& PJ, TOO}
because JRRT..
is The Master
we all ASPIRE to...
www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"
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Noria
Gondor
May 24 2015, 12:26pm
Post #42 of 132
(988 views)
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I would like to bring up a weird mirror to this, though. Which is that Arwen replaced Glorfindel in Fellowship of the Ring and no-one really had a big problem. Also in Bakshi's Lord of the Rings Glorfindel (like PJ's Beorn) is replaced by Legolas, and I quite like that change. But I guess it's less of a problem because Legolas is actually a part of that story.
Back in the day, I saw plenty of complaints about Arwen replacing Glorfindel and superseding Frodo to an extent at the Ford, and about her expanded role in general.
It might have been better for PJ to cut Beorn altogether, though there would have been grief about that too. I like Beorn a lot, book and movie, and wish there was more of him in BotFA but he really isn't essential to the story. The tide of the battle could have been turned in a number of ways.
I also like Legolas but would not have been sorry to see a little less of him.
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Noria
Gondor
May 24 2015, 12:33pm
Post #43 of 132
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I agree completely about the Faramir scene.
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In fact I usually fast forward through it when I watch TTT.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
May 24 2015, 2:31pm
Post #44 of 132
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I understand why Peter Jackson cut Tom Bombadil from The Fellowship of the Ring. Bakshi cut Old Tom from his animated The Lord of the Rings for similar reasons.
It was even more of a shame, though, to have to lose the Barrow-downs sequence. I really wanted to see the hobbits' encounter with the Barrow-wights. However, doing that without including Bombadil would probably have necessitated completely altering the introduction of Aragorn by having Strider rescue Frodo and his companions from the Wights.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on May 24 2015, 2:32pm)
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AshNazg
Gondor
May 24 2015, 2:46pm
Post #45 of 132
(937 views)
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Maybe they could have had Legolas rescue them //
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
May 24 2015, 2:51pm
Post #46 of 132
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At least the Barrow-downs were just outside of Bree where Strider was waiting. You might have suggested a rescue by Gildor or Glorfindel (or Arwen?)!
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on May 24 2015, 2:52pm)
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Bombadil
Half-elven
May 24 2015, 2:54pm
Post #47 of 132
(930 views)
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Bombadil was Not effected by the ONE Ring..
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SSOoo.. how are you going to establish this? as the Most
Powerful, Evil in their world... after that?
he was left out, for that very reason.
AS well, how are you gunna CAST Goldberry as the
Most beautiful Female Spirit ever, anyway..?
www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"
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AshNazg
Gondor
May 24 2015, 2:59pm
Post #48 of 132
(927 views)
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...because being replaced with Legolas was what happened to Beorn. 
I think replacing him with Strider could have worked, actually. Maybe if they moved the Barrow Downs to the other side of Bree. But the only real problem I have with missing the Barrow-Downs is that Merry's blade has less significance, so his stabbing the Witch-King later loses some explanation. But I understand the removal, it doesn't really bother me.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
May 24 2015, 2:59pm
Post #49 of 132
(928 views)
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I'm not sure what your point is, Bomby.
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Yes, Bombadil was not affected by the Ring. But since he was excluded from the films, the issue never comes up. I'm not sure how this is relevant.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
May 24 2015, 3:05pm
Post #50 of 132
(920 views)
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Yes, I was joking similarly about Arwen (who famously stood in for Glorfindel).
GIldor Inglorion actually could have worked here. He was in this region of Eriador at the time and he could have seen the hobbits safely to Bree (or at least out of the Downs). And the hobbits could have received the blades from the barrow, just as in the book! Damn! I wish that I'd thought of this years ago.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on May 24 2015, 3:06pm)
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