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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Is it okay to like the movies?
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor


May 22 2015, 1:45am

Post #1 of 37 (2124 views)
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Is it okay to like the movies? Can't Post

Okay, this is a rant, and I know I could be doing better things (like running on my treadmill) than writing this, but I can't help it. I LIKE the movies better than the book, okay? There, I said it, so sue me! Yeah, someone on another post just got all condescending with me over the fact that I didn't much care for the book. Well, some people just don't care much for the movies, and that's fine, really. I don't think you're a terrible person for feeling that way, we all have our tastes and preferences and they aren't always going to agree. I know that a few people really didn't like Richard Armitage as Thorin - and of course, if you've read ANYTHING I've posted you know how I feel about THAT! I admit I'm a huge fangirl where RA/Thorin is concerned, and no I don't see how anyone can think another actor (for instance, Ian McShane) could have done better. BUT that doesn't mean I think someone is stupid or blind for feeling that way. I'm sorry, I sometimes can be like a bulldog that gets ahold of a bone and won't let go. If I have EVER said something to anyone along those lines, let me apologize now. IF you didn't like Richard as Thorin, so be it.

As an American, I had never heard of either Richard or Martin Freeman before "The Hobbit." I really think that Peter Jackson did a terrific job casting those two - and the fact that I think their performances were so amazing is probably the main reason I love these movies so well. And then there's Ian McKellan. I wouldn't have seen the movie at all if they'd re-cast Gandalf, no way. And I think all of the actors did a fantastic job, whether I liked the characters or not. If there is one thing I haven't read hardly anyone on TORn say, it's that any of the actors were awful. Complain if you must about the script or storyline, but you really can't fault the acting. I also believe that the same care and perfection went into the costumes and set design that LoTR had. I won't argue with anyone about OTT action and CGI; yes there was quite a bit in both movies and it's not everyone's cup of tea. Again, you are entitled to your opinion, but please, think about the way you may be saying something. Surely we are all reasonable people and therefore can disagree without calling the other poster an idiot. Okay, I said my peace, and nobody needs to comment. I probably need to get on my treadmill and let go of this bone of contention that I'm yammering about.

Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association


Bracegirdle
Valinor


May 22 2015, 2:18am

Post #2 of 37 (1928 views)
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Misinformed here, or not up to date… for when you get off your treadmill. . . [In reply to] Can't Post

No judgment but,

You don’t say how long ago you read the books and how many times etc. before you saw the movies.



Pandallo
Rivendell

May 22 2015, 2:35am

Post #3 of 37 (1919 views)
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Read the book three times, once when young, when I was older, and before the movies came out... [In reply to] Can't Post

I find it to be too thin, there's not enough meat on it to really engross me. It's still a fantastic piece of work, but even Tolkien described it as a "rabble" when he was thinking of a way to incorporate it into his larger mythology.

For that I like the movies much more. Thorin is a well-rounded character moreso than in the book. Bilbo is a lot less fussy and his motives are clearer. Bard is a character rather than deus ex machina, Thranduil has a darker edge to him which is more welcome than the rather plain version of him from the novel.

What the book has going for it is a little bit more lore, but the movies have the heart and character that I find the short book has in limited supply.


Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor


May 22 2015, 3:13am

Post #4 of 37 (1907 views)
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Well that wasn't my point [In reply to] Can't Post

It was a matter of respect. To answer your question, I am sure I read the LOTR books in 7th grade (more than a few years ago), and probably when I was in the Air Force back in the 1980's. Whether that included The Hobbit I couldn't tell you, although the collection I bought back then had the 4 books in it. I definitely read The Hobbit after the first Hobbit movie came out, that was the last time. I have definitely NOT read the Simarilion - sorry, but I was told it was awful - or any other books, though I'd like to read the Lost Tales someday.

But again, my point is just that if someone doesn't agree with me, it doesn't mean I have the attention span of a cat, or that I loved the "Transformers" movies or beheadings in general. It doesn't even mean I hated the book (the ending, yes, but not the book itself), it just means I like the movies better. My opinion is not meant to disrespect anyone on TORn that feels the opposite; in fact I can understand many of the criticisms of the movie. If I have EVER said anything hostile or disrespectful to you or anyone else, I apologize profusely. That was the ultimate point.

Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association


Bracegirdle
Valinor


May 22 2015, 4:01am

Post #5 of 37 (1889 views)
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In short ,my question was simply curiosity not judgmental or meant as criticism. [In reply to] Can't Post

 I read H., LOTR, Sil. back in 1969. I read H. and LOTR at least 50 times BEFORE the first PJ movie came out.
So, of course I examined every jot and tittle, and was enthralled with the absolute beauty of the tale and the exquisite writing, and have been involved since that time with all phases of this wondrous work.

After that many readings (pre-movies) perhaps you can understand why some of us ‘book-firsters’ were a bit disappointed with the inaccuracies of the films.

I find nothing disrespectful in your enjoyment of the movies and I’m sure there are many many folks who take to the movies rather than the books. Hopefully the movies will direct some to read the books and find the real beauty of the written word.

Cheers and happy watching!

BG



DanielLB
Immortal


May 22 2015, 6:28am

Post #6 of 37 (1863 views)
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But but but ... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Okay, I said my peace, and nobody needs to comment.


Isn't that what a forum is for?

Let's not just limit this to The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. There are movies (i.e. Iron Man and any other superhero movie) and book-to-movie adaptations (i.e. 2001: A Space Odyssey) which are traditionally admired by many that I dislike, while there are some movies (i.e. The Star Wars prequels) and book-to-movie adaptations (i.e. The Time Machine) which are traditionally disliked by many that I love.

If everyone agreed about everything, there would be no discussion. Everyone shares valid opinions on The Hobbit movies.

P.S. I can't help but think these two comments are contradictory:


Quote
Complain if you must about the script or storyline, but you really can't fault the acting.

...

Quote
Again, you are entitled to your opinion, but please, think about the way you may be saying something.

I really can complain about some of the acting. Anybody can say anything about anything they want. Opinions are opinions.



CathrineB
Rohan


May 22 2015, 8:44am

Post #7 of 37 (1810 views)
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Of course [In reply to] Can't Post

Of course it's alright to like the movies more, but I know indeed there are people in the fandom that feel entitled because they prefer the books and has read it all.

I have for most part been able to enjoy the books for what they are and the movies for that and not been able to decide which one I prefer more. I have simply loved both versions, you know?

The Hobbit I always enjoyed because it's a cute story and funny written, BUT it lacks depth so for me the movies has made the book better in regard of the characters. The dwarves in particular were just identical dwarves with colorful hoods and long beards. After the movie I can actually (and gladly do so) imagine James Nesbitt as loveable Bofur with his hat rather than a faceless character.

Why can't we be allowed this opinion? I'm not less respectful of Tolkien's work. I'm not telling anyone else to feel the same afterall.


Bombadil
Half-elven


May 22 2015, 10:57am

Post #8 of 37 (1774 views)
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OKAY? Bomby's Turn.. [In reply to] Can't Post

Looking back, the Year, 1967 was ALL about the LOTR.
Had my Mother make me a Hooded Hobbit Habit for me
& 2 two close friends...
We painted a Pick-up Truck with Smaug & other images from
the Books on it, therefore we became our town's
"HobbitHippies"..?

Once out of High School in 1968
& in College found many more OBSESSIVE Compulsive TolkienFREAKS.

Influenced Bomby to get a College degree in Film-making.
{With the secret desire to make Tolkien Movies}

BUT real life won...

SSOoo.. when a funny little Boy from a obscure Bay
in a Far Green Country over the Western...Horizon?
TOOK upon himself this... Insurmountable TASK..!

Bomby was personally Afraid he might MUCK it up..
NOT..
Thank goodness..

Like Tolkien
PJ, is One?... for the AGES...

Crazy

www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"

(This post was edited by Bombadil on May 22 2015, 10:59am)


adt100
Rohan


May 22 2015, 11:04am

Post #9 of 37 (1761 views)
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Wait a minute..... you LIKED that star wars prequels!?!?! [In reply to] Can't Post

 


dormouse
Half-elven


May 22 2015, 1:19pm

Post #10 of 37 (1694 views)
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'Course it is! :-) [In reply to] Can't Post

I certainly do (I don't suppose anyone round here has noticed this yet, but...Wink )

Alright to like, alright to dislike, alright to share all shades of opinion. And yes, sometimes other posters can seem a bit condescending but I try (try) to look at it this way. Nine times out of ten they don't mean it. Wouldn't be sensible - or fair - to take offence where none was intended, would it? And on the rare occasion that they do mean it, why give 'em the satisfaction... Evil

Just stick to your guns, like what you like and enjoy liking it, and let the rest wash over your head. Or find a nice teapot to take refuge in (though there's not a lot of room for doing cartwheels...)

When it comes to the books, The Hobbit is a very old friend. But I like Lord of the Rings better. In some moods I like the Silmarillion even better than that. When it comes to the films I love all six.

And though I'm going to duck straight back into my teapot after saying this AND pull down the lid (and probably block the spout as well) I've never even seen the Star Wars prequels - or any Star Wars film except the original... There - I said it! Bye! Cool


Elarie
Grey Havens

May 22 2015, 1:22pm

Post #11 of 37 (1684 views)
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Definitely OK [In reply to] Can't Post

I've certainly watched the movies a lot more than I've read the book, so does that mean I like them better? I think I do, but I place them in separate categories and really don't compare them in terms of "better" or "worse". Thanks to Tolkien's sense of humor and the wry comments of the Narrator, the Hobbit book is funny, charming and delightful as well as a great adventure, but the movies sweep me away to the same Middle Earth as LOTR in a very grand way and really bring the characters to life for me. They are so different in media and tone and scale that they are bound to affect people differently, so I just don't see the point in name calling or rudeness just because different people like different things.

__________________

Gold is the strife of kinsmen,
and fire of the flood-tide,
and the path of the serpent.

(Old Icelandic Fe rune poem)


Bracegirdle
Valinor


May 22 2015, 1:53pm

Post #12 of 37 (1666 views)
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Ooo, Ooo! Never knew the dormouse to block her spout [In reply to] Can't Post

I too have seen only the original Star Wars. No excuse! Can’t really say why.
The original was most enjoyable.

Could I blame it on JRRT? Na!

I don’t have a teapot to “duck back into” but I’ll say it anyway. . . and attempt to temporarily block up my Hobbit Smial entrance -

I haven’t seen the last two parts of The Hobbit! YET…
Must be a flaw in my upbringing? Wink

There – I said it! Bye! Cool



Thrain II
Lorien


May 22 2015, 2:22pm

Post #13 of 37 (1648 views)
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Well... [In reply to] Can't Post

That is preposterous! I will call the lawyers at once!


Glorfindela
Valinor


May 22 2015, 2:29pm

Post #14 of 37 (1646 views)
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It's OK to like (or dislike) both or either [In reply to] Can't Post

It's all right to like both the books and the films. For instance, in the case of FotR I like both, but I've simply never been able to compare them because for me they are two completely different animals (with a thin thread of a story that is reflected from books to films). For me the characters, for instance, are completely different from book to film – apart from, perhaps, Gandalf, the Black Riders in FotR, and old Bilbo.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


May 22 2015, 3:32pm

Post #15 of 37 (1611 views)
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Minor point of correction, Daniel [In reply to] Can't Post

This doesn't really address the topic at hand, but I'm not sure to what extent Stanley Kubrick's 2001: A Space Odyssey can be considered to be a book-to-movie adaptation. The starting point was one or two short stories written by Arthur C. Clarke, but the novel and film were both produced more-or-less at the same time.

"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock


RosieLass
Valinor


May 22 2015, 3:35pm

Post #16 of 37 (1619 views)
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I like them, too. [In reply to] Can't Post

I just think they're terrible adaptations of the book.

"Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it."
--Joyce Meyer

A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP
--Leonard Nimoy


Bombadil
Half-elven


May 22 2015, 5:04pm

Post #17 of 37 (1559 views)
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Doesn't the word "Adaptation" mean Different..? [In reply to] Can't Post

A word-for-word Film of the Book would NOT have
Pleased bomby...
...Cowardly Dwarves? who don't go inside the Mountain until
Forced to.. by Smaug ...But then he flies off to Laketown to be killed
with NO interaction between them at all....WHAT?

That wholesale ADDITION to the Book was necessary,
@LEAST from a ...

Protagonist to antagonist
Power play..A...
Point-of-View that
Put us right inside? their conflict.

Nose-To-Nose Literally, when Thorin is standing there on the tip
of Smaug's Snout .
{ Bomby was giggling inside @ that SHOT!...,thinking THAT izz SSOoo..PJ!}

bomby is a fan of the Forges for Metaphorical reasons, as well as
the Intense action sequence. Especially, since it is still Bilbo
as a key element to progress the Plot {"Barrel Rider?"}

The fact that Bilbo is caught in the Middle of Both sides
parallels his position between the Elves/Men against Dwarves,
in the next Movie...just like in the Book.

ONCE again, "Every Great Story DESERVES some Embellishment!"

OR, do we NOT listen to what Gandalf said?

Bomby feels PJ {The One who owns the Rights to an Adaptation}
put that dialogue in, early in his...

Adaptation, ON PURPOSE just to
Answer critics in
ADVANCE...in a sorta critical Discussion like this
years later.

"...Sneaky little director, Precious..".

Crazy

www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"


shadowdog
Rohan

May 22 2015, 5:32pm

Post #18 of 37 (1535 views)
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From what I remember [In reply to] Can't Post

Book was actually written from the movie script and thus after the movie.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


May 22 2015, 5:53pm

Post #19 of 37 (1519 views)
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2001 [In reply to] Can't Post

From what I've read, Kubrick and Clarke collaborated on the project using Clarke's stories "The Sentinel" and "Encounter in the Dawn" as inspirations. The novel was developed first and then the screenplay, with some significant differences between the two.

"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock


Bishop
Gondor


May 22 2015, 6:25pm

Post #20 of 37 (1508 views)
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this is correct [In reply to] Can't Post

And Kubrick and Clarke wrote the screenplay together for 2001. The book was published shortly after the release of the film.


DanielLB
Immortal


May 22 2015, 7:15pm

Post #21 of 37 (1485 views)
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Bad example. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
This doesn't really address the topic at hand, but I'm not sure to what extent Stanley Kubrick's 2001: A Space Odyssey can be considered to be a book-to-movie adaptation. The starting point was one or two short stories written by Arthur C. Clarke, but the novel and film were both produced more-or-less at the same time.


Thanks, Otaku-sempai. That is a bad example. 2001 is my go-to movie when someone asks for a film I don't enjpy. I'll swap it with The Godfather instead.



RosieLass
Valinor


May 22 2015, 7:16pm

Post #22 of 37 (1474 views)
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Not "unrecognizably different." // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

"Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it."
--Joyce Meyer

A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP
--Leonard Nimoy


Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


May 22 2015, 8:50pm

Post #23 of 37 (1435 views)
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Gah! // [In reply to] Can't Post

//

"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen


lonelymountainhermit
Lorien


May 22 2015, 8:57pm

Post #24 of 37 (1438 views)
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sure [In reply to] Can't Post

It's alright to like the movies as their own thing ...as long as you don't include "an accurate portrayal of Tolkien's vision" as one of your reasons.


Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor


May 22 2015, 9:39pm

Post #25 of 37 (1415 views)
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Well it was mostly a rant [In reply to] Can't Post

so no reply was necessary, but yes this is a forum where things can be discussed. Last night, however, I read a snotty, condescending reply to one of my posts and it really set me off. Although I might write contradictory things, I think I am at least reasonably polite to people when I do so.

Just curious - do you REALLY have a problem with the acting, or were you playing Devil's Advocate?

Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association

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