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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The Carving above the Secret Door.

Otaku-sempai
Immortal


May 21 2015, 5:59pm

Post #1 of 7 (1546 views)
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The Carving above the Secret Door. Can't Post

When Thorin and Company enter Erebor for the first time through the Secret Door, Gloin reads the words engraved just inside the entrance:


Quote
Herein lies the Seventh Kingdom of Durin's Folk.
May the Heart of the Mountain unite all Dwarves in defense of this home.


Accompanying the runes is a carving of the Throne of the King with the Arkenstone above it.

So, Gundabad might arguably been the First Kingdom of Durin's Folk, making Khazad-dum the Second? Can we name any others? Is the Iron Hills one of them?

I suppose we also have to count the Kingdom established by Thorin I in the Grey Mountains. Adapting the chronology of Tolkien's Tale of Years, I come up with:

1. The Kingdom of Durin I in Gundabad.
2. The First-Age Dwarf-kingdom(s) of the Ered Luin (Blue Mountains).
3. The Dwarves of the Orocarni (Mountains of the East).
4. Khazad-dum (Moria).
5. Erebor.
6. Thorin I's Kingdom in the Ered Mithrin (Grey Mountains).
7. The Iron Hills.

Can we come up with an alternate list?

Are we to assume that all of the Dwarves are considered to be Durin's Folk? What about the founders of Nogrod and Belegost in the Blue Mountains? And the Dwarves of the Mountains of the East?

Why would Erebor be the Seventh Kingdom? Why not the Fourth or the Fifth? Can we switch things around, so that Erebor is not founded until after the settlements in the Ered Mithrin and the Iron Hills?

"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on May 21 2015, 6:07pm)


Ilmatar
Rohan


May 21 2015, 7:26pm

Post #2 of 7 (1473 views)
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The carving [In reply to] Can't Post

This is slightly off-topic as per your actual question, but for trivia's sake... The quote in your post is what Glóin says in the movie, but to my knowledge that's not exactly what the runes say:

Herein lies the seventh kingdom of Durins folk. If this fortre
ss be lost or overthrown look to the power of the Arkenstone.


(It's cut like that mid-word - see previous post - I just checked some screencaps, and that is the text that's visible in the film, not concept art as I suspected at some point.)

I hope some more knowledgeable people can participate in the actual kingdom discussion.


(This post was edited by Ilmatar on May 21 2015, 7:28pm)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


May 21 2015, 7:32pm

Post #3 of 7 (1464 views)
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Thanks for this! [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Herein lies the seventh kingdom of Durin's folk.
If this fortress be lost or overthrown look to the power of the Arkenstone.


Evidently, Glóin was not supplying a literal translation.

"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock


Ilmatar
Rohan


May 21 2015, 7:45pm

Post #4 of 7 (1455 views)
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No problem :) [In reply to] Can't Post

Now I'm just wondering how dwarves could "look to the power of the Arkenstone" if it was lost together with the Kingdom - as eventually happened. Maybe that line was meant as a strong recommendation to save the jewel above all else, if possible.
(Sorry, more off-topic.)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


May 21 2015, 7:53pm

Post #5 of 7 (1452 views)
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Well... [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think that the Dwarves anticipated the Arkenstone being lost to them. That's what happens when you rely too much on material objects. Sauron learned that lesson (too late!).

"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock


dormouse
Half-elven


May 21 2015, 10:40pm

Post #6 of 7 (1390 views)
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If the idea was that the King who held the Arkenstone.... [In reply to] Can't Post

... was able to call on the allegiance of the other dwarf kingdoms then that union could be what was meant by 'the power of the Arkenstone'. That's how I'd read it: 'if Erebor is overthrown the dwarves must unite to win it back - the 'power' is symbolic, as the Arkenstone has no magical powers.

But like most prophetic utterances the inscription is worded to be read in any number of ways. There's the reading you mention - 'save the jewel at all costs' - and we see Thror try to do exactly that, until Thorin pulls him back. There might even be a warning there about the effects the stone can have.


Ilmatar
Rohan


May 22 2015, 10:34pm

Post #7 of 7 (1238 views)
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:) Thank you, that sounds like a logical explanation! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

 
 

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