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Legolas_Shoehorn
Bree
May 19 2015, 5:58am
Post #1 of 19
(2149 views)
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DOS: Smaugs 'cool down sound'
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Dwarf Forges: when Bilbo pulls the lever and tons of water hit Smaug, we see that his 'ready-to-breath-fire' chest cools down ... but the sound PJ used to underline what happened is somewhat dumb. That specific sound always takes me out of the movie. To me it sounds like a 'real' machinery of some kind cools down and not an organic being. We all know from the DOS Appendices that the sound design of the last twenty minutes was rushed, but did they really thought that was a proper sound effect?
My English is not that good, my Elvish is better ;-)
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Mooseboy018
Grey Havens
May 19 2015, 6:13am
Post #2 of 19
(2092 views)
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If they thought using the Wilhelm Scream for Thrain's death was okay, who knows what was going on in the sound department.
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AshNazg
Gondor
May 19 2015, 8:11am
Post #3 of 19
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Theres also a few times where Smaug's wing hits the floor without making a sound
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Was hoping theyd fix it in the EE, but they didnt.
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arithmancer
Grey Havens
May 19 2015, 1:47pm
Post #4 of 19
(1976 views)
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This so did not register or take me out of anything that I am not sure what you are even talking about.
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dormouse
Half-elven
May 19 2015, 1:57pm
Post #5 of 19
(1968 views)
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But then, a lot of the posts here at the moment seem to be about a film I didn't see...
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Bishop
Gondor
May 19 2015, 3:42pm
Post #7 of 19
(1925 views)
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My feeling on the wilhelm withstanding......
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I went back to listen to the sound you're talking about with Smaug. And I think it's not a machine at all. To me it sounds exactly like it should, which is an extremely high temperature source being suddenly extinguished. There is crackling and a high whizzing sound which is precisely what you could expect from any organic material moving instantly from one extreme temperature to the other and the stresses that would naturally follow. Any additional machinery noises can no doubt be attributed to the fact that they're actually in the forges which are fully activated. But I'm not hearing anything machine like in that moment specifically attributed to Smaug anyways. Actually I think the sound there is quite brilliant!
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Bombadil
Half-elven
May 19 2015, 3:53pm
Post #8 of 19
(1912 views)
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We must remember these are PROFESSIONALS
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some likely have a Bank of sounds collected over their years of doing this & search through these Banks. Have you ever worked one of those Sound Boards? The infinite combinations modulated of WHAT? 64 or more possibilities.? It's beyond belief! ADD in the Awesome Foley artists, & by Committee with Pj's input...YOU.. ...got to go "WHOA?"
www.charlie-art.biz "What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"
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Legolas_Shoehorn
Bree
May 19 2015, 3:59pm
Post #9 of 19
(1911 views)
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... you can here the same sound effect (of course shorter and of toned down in volume) when Bolg is sniffling for the Dwarves at the shores of the great lake! It's not just the sound effect that bothers me. Maybe it's the fact that Smaugs ability to breath fire can simply be avoided by throwing tons of water at him. This implies that in a certain way Smaug is vulnerable by outer influences (in this case Water). So Water can interrupt his 'main weapon' but Molten Gold does nothing?!
My English is not that good, my Elvish is better ;-)
(This post was edited by Legolas_Shoehorn on May 19 2015, 4:00pm)
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Bofur01
Lorien
May 19 2015, 4:03pm
Post #10 of 19
(1900 views)
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Water stored underground for a few hundred years is probably pretty cool...
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Whereas molten gold is pretty warm....
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Bishop
Gondor
May 19 2015, 4:12pm
Post #11 of 19
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I guess that's what you'd call the biology of fantasy
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At some point Smaug had to be designed and the logistics of his fire breathing needed to be considered. Behind the scenes reveals some interesting discussions about this, such as how the flames are created inside his body, or is he spewing some kind of flammable liquid and hitting it with a biological pilot light on the way out. Then of course at some point the most reasonable thing to do is throw your hands up in the air and resign yourself to the fact that you're creating a fire breathing dragon, so it doesn't have make perfect biological sense. All that said, I'm perfectly happy to accept that water thwarts the effect, whereas some other molten liquid would not. Just don't get me started on why they took away his front legs though.
(This post was edited by Bishop on May 19 2015, 4:21pm)
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Mooseboy018
Grey Havens
May 19 2015, 5:45pm
Post #12 of 19
(1870 views)
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Balrogs have a similar problem.
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Bombadil
Half-elven
May 20 2015, 3:28pm
Post #13 of 19
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..."they took away his front legs"...MAYBE we should ASK
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Everyone here, about their Opinion on that... Personally Bom was FINE with it for a few reasons... 1. Allowed Smaug more room. 2. Allowed him to be different from the Many dragons that have been depicted. 3. Using his front claws as part of his wings? made his Climbing around a bit more Threatening... 4. Sure, It's Not Tolkien, @least for Bomby it was an Improvement.
www.charlie-art.biz "What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
May 20 2015, 4:20pm
Post #14 of 19
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They didn't remove Smaug's forelegs.
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They just attached his wings to them.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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Bishop
Gondor
May 20 2015, 4:54pm
Post #15 of 19
(1707 views)
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They removed his forelegs. There is an entire section in the BTS about doing exactly that. The original Smaug design that was the lead contender for a while was this, which is from Weta. Removing the forelegs meant redesigning the anatomy basically from the ground up, making him more like a bat.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
May 20 2015, 5:00pm
Post #16 of 19
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It is a matter of interpretation.
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The filmmakers did alter Smaug from a dragon with six limbs (including his wings) to a dragon with four limbs. But now his wings have been moved forward to also act as his forelegs. And, yes, it is a substantial redesign.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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Bishop
Gondor
May 20 2015, 5:09pm
Post #17 of 19
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I'm just making a distinction between forearms and wings
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And they made this distinction as well in the BTS I believe. Anyways, I always find it interesting that he had distinct forearms in AUJ and then not in the EE.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
May 20 2015, 5:26pm
Post #18 of 19
(1687 views)
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Other filmmakers, upon settling on a similar redesign, would have probably altered the original version of the movie for home video and any subsequent re-releases, director's cuts or extended editions.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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Bishop
Gondor
May 20 2015, 5:52pm
Post #19 of 19
(1676 views)
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was that the decision was made well after AUJ TE was released on home video on all formats. I know that filmmakers have to prioritize when faced with literally thousands of tough decisions before and as they film. But it's astonishing that they hadn't figured out a design for Smaug until after the release of AUJ TE on home video. I would think that Smaug's design would be one of the first things they locked down in pre-production.
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