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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
An Elvenking Perverted
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal


May 23 2015, 1:54am

Post #26 of 34 (963 views)
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Yes, however... [In reply to] Can't Post

That passage has nothing to do with friendly relations between the Wood-elves and the Dwarves. The quote from your previous post was specific to the how things stand after Lake-town is rebuilt.

"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock


Laineth
Lorien

May 23 2015, 4:10am

Post #27 of 34 (952 views)
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No, [In reply to] Can't Post

it doesn't. My point was that Thranduil and the Woodland Realm were active players in the area. It is inconceivable that Thranduil and Thorin did not know each other.


Eleniel
Tol Eressea


May 23 2015, 5:40am

Post #28 of 34 (946 views)
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But Thorin wsn't dwelling in that area! [In reply to] Can't Post

He wasn't even in Erebor when Smaug came, (in the book) and was only a child/youth. Since that time he had been dwelling "in exile" in the Ered Luin. It's likely that the adult, much older than film Thorin would have been unrecognizable to Thranduil in the book.




"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


May 23 2015, 12:35pm

Post #29 of 34 (933 views)
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It most definitely is conceivable. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
My point was that Thranduil and the Woodland Realm were active players in the area. It is inconceivable that Thranduil and Thorin did not know each other.


In the book-canon, Thorin was no more than 24 years old when Smaug came; still a youth by dwarven reckoning. In addition. there is little evidence that, prior to Smaug's occupation of Erebor, the Mirkwood Elves maintained any relationship with the Dwarves of Erebor. Thorin thought that the mithril shirt that he gave to Bilbo might have been crafted for some young Elf-prince, but even that is uncertain and would have been long ago. For all the Elvenking knew, Thorin's company might have been from the Iron Hills, some more distant Dwarf-kingdom, or they might have been in the employ of the Enemy.

"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock


Laineth
Lorien

May 23 2015, 4:13pm

Post #30 of 34 (922 views)
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You're right, [In reply to] Can't Post

I had forgotten Thorin's exact age. Thror and Thranduil still would have known each other, since their kingdoms were neighbors. I never meant that they would have a close relationship, only that some interaction between Erebor and the Woodland Realm had to have happened. Even if it was just them agreeing to leave the other alone. Smile


Laineth
Lorien

May 23 2015, 4:15pm

Post #31 of 34 (919 views)
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You're right, I had forgotten Thorin's exact age. [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


May 23 2015, 7:05pm

Post #32 of 34 (910 views)
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Thranduil's Age [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Thranduil is actually older than Elrond. We are told that Elrond and Elros are born in First Age 532. We are never given Thranduil's birthdate, but we are told that he survived the ruin of Doriath in FA 503-506.


I find myself pressed for time right now, but I want to get back to you on Thranduil's estimated age. I don't remember this factoid from Unfinished Tales and I am sure that it is not in The Silmarillion; please, what is the source for this information?

I do know that timelines for the Years of the Sun vary from scholar to scholar, so even the year given for the births of Elrond and Elros is a bit debatable.

"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock


Laineth
Lorien

May 24 2015, 4:15pm

Post #33 of 34 (893 views)
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Definitely! [In reply to] Can't Post

In several works we are told Thranduil came from Doriath. I'm away from home, so I don't have my books either, but I've found those dates to be the same in multiple online sources. They come from The War of the Jewels:

Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Arda#Years_of_the_Sun_in_the_First_Age

Valar Guild: http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/events/timeline/Complete_Chronology_of_First_Age.htm#FirstAge

Tolkien Gateway: http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Timeline/First_Age

I hope this helps! I'm not 100% sure, so if you have something I missed, I'd love to hear about it.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


May 24 2015, 5:10pm

Post #34 of 34 (892 views)
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I don't have many of the HOME volumes [In reply to] Can't Post

I am relying on the timelines of the First Age (Years of the Sun) found in Robert Foster's The Complete Guide to Middle-earth and The Complete Tolkien Companion by J.E.A. Tyler. It is possible that HOME has made these works are a bit obsolete.

"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on May 24 2015, 5:10pm)

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