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**LotR: The Bridge of Khazad-dûm, 5: Blank Darkness **

Elizabeth
Half-elven


May 15 2015, 8:19am

Post #1 of 24 (4154 views)
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**LotR: The Bridge of Khazad-dûm, 5: Blank Darkness ** Can't Post

Reprise:

Quote
With a terrible cry the Balrog fell forward, and its shadow plunged down and vanished. But even as it fell it swung its whip, and the thongs lashed and curled about the wizard’s knees, dragging him to the brink. He staggered and fell, grasped vainly at the stone, and slid into the abyss. ‘Fly, you fools! ‘ he cried, and was gone.


1R. Note the curious punctuation of the ‘He staggered’ line. It is very deliberately chopped into four separate bits, rendering the moment into slow motion. How’s that for effective writing? (I know we have English teachers out there)


Quote
The fires went out, and blank darkness fell. The Company stood rooted with horror staring into the pit. Even as Aragorn and Boromir came flying back, the rest of the bridge cracked and fell. With a cry Aragorn roused them.

‘Come! I will lead you now! ‘ he called. ‘We must obey his last command. Follow me!‘


Thus, the King assumes the leadership role. To me, the sentence that encapsulates the situation perfectly is this one: Thus, at last, they came beyond hope under the sky and felt the wind on their faces.

After days under ground, in the dark and still air, facing perils they never even imagined, they are in the sunshine, with wind on their faces, but "beyond hope." This one sentence, for me, encapsulates the rest of, at the very least, Frodo's quest. Beyond hope. We will revisit this several times in the chapters to come.

2. Why did Frodo continue? Why not just give up and go home with the Ring (it didn't seem to trouble Bilbo that much).

3R. Now is the time to assess the entire action sequence as a literary work. Go back over the chapter and comment on it as a piece of writing. Does it accomplish the writer’s purpose? Does it engage the reader? How does it succeed of fail?


The chapter is done. I am worn out, and you may be too, but Reverend did this chapter in a mind-boggling 33 posts (of which I've pinched only a few good bits) plus a Summary at the end! Some things we missed, and I offer you his last few posts in case you have a little time over the weekend:

Notes on Dwarven Engineering
The Role of Aragorn
The Role of Gimli
The Role of Legolas
The Role of Gandalf
The Role of Boromir
How DOES Gollum track through all of that?

They are all well worth reading, as they offer some interesting insights.

Reverend actually assigned points to all his respondents for interesting and original comments, and as if that all weren't enough, he actually gave them an exhaustive multiple-choice test. I dare you. He didn't actually supply an answer sheet, but if you're curious, use NZ Strider's response as a gold standard.

I hope you enjoyed this rather novel approach to a chapter discussion. I have, and I thank you for your participation!








(This post was edited by Elizabeth on May 15 2015, 8:20am)


oliphaunt
Lorien


May 15 2015, 2:29pm

Post #2 of 24 (3984 views)
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Thanks for tlhe illumination... [In reply to] Can't Post

Note the curious punctuation of the ‘He staggered’ line. It is very deliberately chopped into four separate bits, rendering the moment into slow motion. How’s that for effective writing? (I know we have English teachers out there)

I bet no one breathes reading it. Then, a gasp for breath comes at the end. When you get to the word “vainly”, you know he’s going over the edge.

As an aside, I’m interested in Gandalf’s use of the word “fools”. This word appears many times in LOTR. Gandalf recently called Pippin a fool of a Took. Later, an honest fool. Here are the fools Aragorn and Borormir (for staying to face the Balgrog) or the Company in general? He calls the hope for destruction of the Ring a fool’s hope. I recall Gollum calling Frodo and Sam foolish. The Lord of the Nazgul calls Gandalf and Eowyn fools. I bet there are other examples. The first outside reference I think of is Corinthians: “For the message of the cross is foolishness” And we know, of course, that this fool’s hope comes true as well. What distinguishes foolishness from wisdom that appears foolish? How is foolish behavior turned favorable, like Pippin looking in the Palantir? Why did Gandalf choose “fools” as his last word to the Company? If I went around calling people fools it would not go well. But I’m no wizard.


To me, the sentence that encapsulates the situation perfectly is this one: Thus, at last, they came beyond hope under the sky and felt the wind on their faces.

I love that sentence too, it gives me hope!


2. Why did Frodo continue? Why not just give up and go home with the Ring (it didn't seem to trouble Bilbo that much).

Frodo has made a commitment. His word is stronger than fear.

I thank you for your participation!

And I you - for providing a light in this dark journey.


CuriousG
Half-elven


May 15 2015, 6:34pm

Post #3 of 24 (3962 views)
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Fools [In reply to] Can't Post


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Why did Gandalf choose “fools” as his last word to the Company? If I went around calling people fools it would not go well. But I’m no wizard.

I often wonder the same thing. My conclusion is that Tolkien takes great pains to show that Gandalf is crusty on the outside if a little soft on the inside, so his parting words to his dear friends is to call them fools. I don't think any of them take it personally, but as a reader, I think, "Really? That's the last thing you say to your friends?" Not as bad as "idiots" or "imbeciles," and since he does use the word before, they're used to hearing him say it and know it's not a true insult. But it's definitely not in the realm of, "With my dying breath, I wanted to let you know that I've always loved you but never knew how to say it" that you get in TV and movies.


squire
Half-elven


May 15 2015, 7:06pm

Post #4 of 24 (3966 views)
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Fellowship of Fools [In reply to] Can't Post

I've always loved Gandalf's last words, 'Fly, you fools!' I interpreted them not as harsh love or something, but more along the lines of:
OK, I didn't want to die doing this, but here I go. This is it. WHAT? What are you all looking at? If you don't RUN now, my imminent death has NO MEANING. You fools, stop gawping at me and GET THE HECK OUT OF HERE!
It also ties into the next time we hear from Gandalf, long after we've absorbed that he's gone for good:
...there came to his mind another thought: “Take it off! Take it off! Fool, take it off! Take off the Ring!”
Surely here, rather than the following week in Fangorn, is the first place where the reader, like Aragorn later on, feels "a shudder run through him ..., a strange cold thrill; and yet it was not fear or terror that he felt: rather it was like the sudden bite of a keen air, or the slap of a cold rain that wakes an uneasy sleeper."



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd & 4th TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion and NOW the 1st BotR Discussion too! and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


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Darkstone
Immortal


May 15 2015, 8:44pm

Post #5 of 24 (3945 views)
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Well... [In reply to] Can't Post

....a Shakespearean fool is usually a person of humble origins who outdoes their supposed betters. So humble hobbits Frodo and Sam will bring down Sauron, ranger Strider will replace Denethor, Merry and Pippin will bring down Saruman, and young Legolas and Gimli will bridge the generations long hatred fostered by their supposedly wiser elders.

Of course they're all fools, for only fools could face the inconvenient truth that the Ring must be destroyed in the fires of Mount Doom.

(Notice I didn't mention Boromir...)

******************************************

I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.


Bracegirdle
Valinor


May 15 2015, 10:12pm

Post #6 of 24 (3935 views)
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“Fly, you fools!” [In reply to] Can't Post

THIS is Gandalf! THIS IS what we all LOVE about Gandalf. All the Fellowship members know the word “fools” for what it is. “Fools” as applied by Gandalf has only a meaning of intimacy. The statement itself is of love, concern, and above all haste.

Simple, short, direct, and to the point. THREE LITTLE WORDS with SO much meaning. POWERFUL!

The three words in a strange way remind me of a scene in the movie “Tombstone”. As Doc Holliday continually puts his life on the line for Wyatt Earp, a companion asks why he does so. Holliday simply answers, “Wyatt Earp is my friend”. His companion says, “@#$%, I’ve got lots of friends.” And Holliday responds – I don’t!

Simple, short, direct, and to the point. TWO LITTLE WORDS with SOOoo much meaning! POWERFUL!

A case where the least said the better…

But Gandalf had no time for a dialogue such as Squire has mentioned, although those thoughts surely scurried though his mind as he “grasped vainly” at the broken bridge.



oliphaunt
Lorien


May 16 2015, 10:41pm

Post #7 of 24 (3895 views)
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Thanks all for the great responses! [In reply to] Can't Post

You've all given me a lot to think about.

So being called a fool by Gandalf is a good thing, a token of care and affection.

Being called a fool (or a rag-tag) by Saruman is a compliment, but not an intentional one on his part. Evidence perhaps that you are beyond his failing understanding, and are far from a fool (or a rag-tag).


sador
Half-elven


May 18 2015, 1:19pm

Post #8 of 24 (3834 views)
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"I must feel the wind on my face or die." [In reply to] Can't Post

- Thorin's words, at the beginning of Not at Home.

Did you ever make the connection? I haven't until now.

1R. Note the curious punctuation of the ‘He staggered’ line. It is very deliberately chopped into four separate bits, rendering the moment into slow motion. How’s that for effective writing? (I know we have English teachers out there)
Do we now? Or did you have back in Reverend's time?


I think this punctuation is effective, and conveys Gandalf's desperate struggle against falling. It is a far cry from the conscious self-sacrifice depicted in the film.

2. Why did Frodo continue? Why not just give up and go home with the Ring (it didn't seem to trouble Bilbo that much).
What choice did he have? Compare to Bilbo after crossing the Mountains in Out of the Frying-pan Into the Fire.

3R. Now is the time to assess the entire action sequence as a literary work. Go back over the chapter and comment on it as a piece of writing. Does it accomplish the writer’s purpose? Does it engage the reader? How does it succeed of fail?

Yes, it is very engaging, as we have discussed before.

Thank you, Elizabeth for this discussion!


Darkstone
Immortal


May 18 2015, 2:23pm

Post #9 of 24 (3827 views)
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I like this! [In reply to] Can't Post


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"I must feel the wind on my face or die."
- Thorin's words, at the beginning of Not at Home.

Did you ever make the connection? I haven't until now.


Thanks very much for that!

******************************************

I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.


squire
Half-elven


May 18 2015, 6:08pm

Post #10 of 24 (3824 views)
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Thus, at last, they came beyond hope under the sky and felt the wind on their faces. [In reply to] Can't Post

This line states about as simply as possible the standard interpretation for the underground journey in mythic literature: resurrection after death. Entombed, you re-emerged from the earth. The additional Christian touch is that the journey is to the East so that one greets the rising sun, symbolically recapitulating the imagined journey of the setting sun (death of the light) under the Earth to the West, from West to East below the land, and re-arising in a rebirth of light in the East at dawn. Not coincidentally medieval Christians oriented (to the orient, the east - get it?) their maps towards Jerusalem, the Holy Land; and cathedrals are also oriented with the front door facing west and the apse - site of the altar where the Passion is reenacted - facing east so that the rising sun illuminates the image of Christ placed above the altar.

Whew. Well, the Company here doesn't emerge from Moria at dawn, showing that Tolkien knew how not to overdo his symbolism. Anyway, he'd already played that card at the barrows, when Tom rolls the stone aside and allows the rising sun to enter the barrow from the east and revive the hobbits. More significantly, I think, the east in Middle-earth is not the east in medieval Europe, being the direction of evil and darkness, not the direction of light and salvation. Nevertheless the sun rises in the East in both worlds, and Tolkien has quite a lot of fun playing with the conflicts that arise - for instance later on when the sun rises over the doomed Ephel Duath to illuminate Aragorn's hunt for the hobbits in Book III and also his desire for Gondor to the south - half way between East and West.

The Fellowship found Life under the sky again, "beyond hope", as this final line puts it. Punchy but not very original: "Beyond hope" is one of Tolkien's favorite phrases for the triumph of life over certain death, and occurs regularly in both the Sil and in LotR. One of my favorites refers to one of the most central symbols in the entire legendarium:
“Hail Eärendil, of mariners most renowned, the looked for that cometh at unawares, the longed for that cometh beyond hope! Hail Eärendil, bearer of light before the Sun and Moon! Splendour of the Children of Earth, star in the darkness, jewel in the sunset, radiant in the morning!”
That voice was the voice of Eönwë, herald of Manwë, and he came from Valimar, and summoned Eärendil to come before the Powers of Arda. -
Sil 24, "Of the Voyage of Earendil")

and then, more briefly:
"...but I will not trouble you now. If ever beyond hope you return to the lands of the living and we retell our tales, sitting by a wall in the sun, laughing at old grief, you shall tell me then." - LotR IV.6 (Faramir's farewell to Frodo in Ithilien).

And don't forget this last one, perhaps more appropriate to my subject:
...the Darkness came and King Théoden arose and rode through the Shadow to the fire, and died in splendour, even as the Sun, returning beyond hope, gleamed upon Mindolluin in the morning. - LotR VI.6 (all bolds by squire)




squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd & 4th TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion and NOW the 1st BotR Discussion too! and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


= Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.


Darkstone
Immortal


May 18 2015, 8:34pm

Post #11 of 24 (3815 views)
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"...the folly that is mine alone, to suffer this dread thing." [In reply to] Can't Post

It had taken me an hour to come down. For all my efforts two more had passed before I found myself at the fall of Reichenbach once more. There was Holmes's Alpine-stock still leaning against the rock by which I had left him. But there was no sign of him, and it was in vain that I shouted. My only answer was my own voice reverberating in a rolling echo from the cliffs around me.
It was the sight of that Alpine-stock which turned me cold and sick.

-Arthur Conan Doyle, The Final Problem


1R. Note the curious punctuation of the ‘He staggered’ line. It is very deliberately chopped into four separate bits, rendering the moment into slow motion. How’s that for effective writing? (I know we have English teachers out there)

I’m reminded of the similar melos in Hart Crane’s only long poem “The River” (1930).

Very nice catch. Thanks for that.


2. Why did Frodo continue?

I’ve always thought loyalty to Bilbo.

Consider the play "Antigone" by Sophocles:

ISMENE
A hopeless quest should not be made at all.

ANTIGONE
If thus thou speakest, thou wilt have hatred from me, and will justly be subject to the lasting hatred of the dead. But leave me, and the folly that is mine alone, to suffer this dread thing; for I shall not suffer aught so dreadful as an ignoble death.

ISMENE
Go, then, if thou must; and of this be sure,-that though thine errand is foolish, to thy dear ones thou art truly dear.



Why not just give up and go home with the Ring (it didn't seem to trouble Bilbo that much).

Well, of course Bilbo wasn’t being hunted by the Enemy. Besides, Frodo has burnt his bridges behind him. (Or at least sold his house.)


3R. Now is the time to assess the entire action sequence as a literary work. Go back over the chapter and comment on it as a piece of writing. Does it accomplish the writer’s purpose?

Pert much. It gets rid of a major character, like Doyle's "The Final Problem", Ian Fleming's "From Russia With Love", and Agatha Christie's "Curtain: Poirot's Last Case". (Of course, except for Christie, they all bring the dead guy back.)


Does it engage the reader?

It did me, but that’s not saying much. I get engaged reading cereal boxes.


How does it succeed or fail?

It seems to combine Ezra Pound’s three kinds of poetry: melopoeia, “wherein the words are charged, over and above their plain meaning, with some musical property, which directs the bearing or trend of that meaning”; phanopoeia, “a casting of images upon the visual imagination”; and logopoeia, “the dance of the intellect among words.”

Three out of three is perfection, and perfection is Tolkien.

Thanks for leading!

******************************************

I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.

(This post was edited by Darkstone on May 18 2015, 8:37pm)


Hamfast Gamgee
Tol Eressea

May 18 2015, 11:56pm

Post #12 of 24 (3802 views)
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One thing abou this that does niggle me a bit [In reply to] Can't Post

The death of Gandalf is moving and sad amongst the fellowship. But is all of this emotion a little bit cheapened by the fact that Gandalf does come back in just a few chapters. And I don't think that I am giving anything away by saying this! I wonder if this might have been more moving if Gandalf had just stayed dead? In general, I am not a great fan in fiction of characters been killed and then returning, and this does happen quite a bit, even in tales which I like.


Riven Delve
Tol Eressea


May 22 2015, 4:16pm

Post #13 of 24 (3764 views)
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The curious case of punctuation [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
He staggered and fell, grasped vainly at the stone, and slid into the abyss.




1R. Note the curious punctuation of the ‘He staggered’ line. It is very deliberately chopped into four separate bits, rendering the moment into slow motion. How’s that for effective writing?


I must be missing something. What "four bits" is the sentence chopped into? (Surely it's three bits with four verbs?) And isn't it standard punctuation?


In any case, it is effective writing--and makes for even more effective storytelling. I think this is an example of where the ancient preliterate texts (Anglo-Saxon, etc.) that Tolkien so loved influence his style. This paragraph seems to me to be an example of parataxis--short, simple sentences linked by conjunctions--which was a common rhythm for storytellers to adopt. It does make for high drama! I haven't yet delved into the study of how Tolkien uses a paratactic style throughout LOTR, but it's something I'm going have my ears pricked for as I read through! Smile




“Tollers,” Lewis said to Tolkien, “there is too little of what we really like in stories. I am afraid we shall have to try and write some ourselves.”



Riven Delve
Tol Eressea


May 22 2015, 4:22pm

Post #14 of 24 (3755 views)
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It might be that repeat readers are a bit jaded [In reply to] Can't Post



In Reply To
The death of Gandalf is moving and sad amongst the fellowship. But is all of this emotion a little bit cheapened by the fact that Gandalf does come back in just a few chapters. And I don't think that I am giving anything away by saying this! I wonder if this might have been more moving if Gandalf had just stayed dead? In general, I am not a great fan in fiction of characters been killed and then returning, and this does happen quite a bit, even in tales which I like.


If we've read it more than once, we of course know that Gandalf is only mostly dead. Angelic But the first time through, I did find it very moving...especially when coupled with the reaction of the Elves later on in Lothlorien, and even Aragorn being somewhat at a loss as to what Gandalf's plans were. I remember feeling very lost--or maybe I was just identifying with how I imagined Frodo must have been feeling. Unsure


“Tollers,” Lewis said to Tolkien, “there is too little of what we really like in stories. I am afraid we shall have to try and write some ourselves.”



CuriousG
Half-elven


May 22 2015, 5:22pm

Post #15 of 24 (3751 views)
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Good point, Riven [In reply to] Can't Post

On first read, I was sure Gandalf was dead, and as you point out, the mourning by the Elves made it sink in even more. There was no talk in Lorien such as Galadriel saying, "Don't be too sure he's dead. Wizards are mysterious beings, after all." No, he was gone, and the hobbits and Aragorn clearly felt lost without him.

I think a book should only be intended to stand up to its first reading, not somehow work for multiple readings. Fortunately LOTR does stand up to multiple readings, but I don't think it's fair to judge it as "cheapened" that Gandalf comes back to life in a few chapters. It's not like as he fell, he cried out, "See you again soon, you fools!"


Brethil
Half-elven


May 22 2015, 6:57pm

Post #16 of 24 (3747 views)
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Lovely point there on syntax and punctuation as a tool, RD. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To
He staggered and fell, grasped vainly at the stone, and slid into the abyss.




1R. Note the curious punctuation of the ‘He staggered’ line. It is very deliberately chopped into four separate bits, rendering the moment into slow motion. How’s that for effective writing?


I must be missing something. What "four bits" is the sentence chopped into? (Surely it's three bits with four verbs?) And isn't it standard punctuation?


In any case, it is effective writing--and makes for even more effective storytelling. I think this is an example of where the ancient preliterate texts (Anglo-Saxon, etc.) that Tolkien so loved influence his style. This paragraph seems to me to be an example of parataxis--short, simple sentences linked by conjunctions--which was a common rhythm for storytellers to adopt. It does make for high drama! I haven't yet delved into the study of how Tolkien uses a paratactic style throughout LOTR, but it's something I'm going have my ears pricked for as I read through! Smile



That ear of his using the vowel alliterations - which I note there are no o's in this line. Those seem to be a more sonorous, weighty type of sound: instead we have the more sprightly a's and e's, which to me sound more like activity and are 'faster' sounding than the o's and u's. The more I read of the alliterative, the more enraptured I am of it. Its a whole other layer of meaning.









Elizabeth
Half-elven


May 23 2015, 12:40am

Post #17 of 24 (3740 views)
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Except for 'stone', of course. [In reply to] Can't Post

When I read the line, I feel a natural pause after 'staggared' even though there's no punctuation. Rhythmically there are four. I think.








squire
Half-elven


May 23 2015, 1:35am

Post #18 of 24 (3737 views)
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The sentence is in three parts; it's not really parataxis but rather a standard list construction. [In reply to] Can't Post

He staggered and fell, grasped vainly at the stone, and slid into the abyss.

The three parts of the sentence are in list form: A, B, and C. Had he been using parataxis as Riven Delve urges (which I agree Tolkien absolutely loves and uses to death in other parts of the story, usually in the latter and more epic half), the structure would be A, and B, and C.

A close reading exercise:
A: "He staggered and fell". It doesn't do to separate this into two parts, because Tolkien does not do so with commas, as he might have. "Staggered and fell" are thus a compound verb formation describing essentially one action, of the feet and lower body.
B. "Grasped vainly at the stone". I'm not sure I buy Brethil's idea that long and short vowels have meaning for the author, but for what it's worth the long vowels are here in the middle. The action is of the hands - trying to make up for the disaster of the feet in the first part. Note how much better "vainly" fits into the rhythm of the sentence than the more conventional "in vain" would have.
C. "And slid into the abyss." Here is the only example in the sentence of assonation, the vowel-equivalent to consonants' alliteration as Brethil mistakenly identified it. "Slid", "into", and "abyss" repeat the short 'i' sound. It is a low-key sound, ironically minimizing the horror of the ending of the action.

A few structural notes:
1. In A and C the first stress is on the verbs, STAG-gered and SLID; in B the first stress is on adverb 'VAIN-ly', which works to vary a too-deadly symmetry in the sentence.
2. A. The feet erred, B. the hands could not correct the error, and C. the entire body suffers in the end.
3. A. five syllables; B. six syllables; C. seven syllables.

Like most of Tolkien's sentences, it's clear that some thought and talent went into its construction.



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd & 4th TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion and NOW the 1st BotR Discussion too! and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


= Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.


noWizardme
Half-elven


May 23 2015, 7:04am

Post #19 of 24 (3723 views)
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ah! I can see it in 4parts now [In reply to] Can't Post

If I add punctuation to exaggerate it:
He staggered - and fell; grasped vainly at the stone, and slid into the abyss.


(C.f.
He staggered and fell, grasped vainly at the stone, and slid into the abyss.)

The different effect (effect on me) is how long the wizard remains on his feet- is that the agonizing pause, or is it as he scrabbles on the stone?

~~~~~~

"nowimë I am in the West, Furincurunir to the Dwarves (or at least, to their best friend) and by other names in other lands. Mostly they just say 'Oh no it's him - look busy!' "
Or "Hold off! unhand me, grey-beard loon!"

My avatar image s looking a bit blue, following the rumbling of my 2 "secrets" Wink : http://newboards.theonering.net/...i?post=855358#855358

This year LOTR turns 60. The following image is my LOTR 60th anniversary party footer! You can get yours here: http://newboards.theonering.net/...i?post=762154#762154


Elizabeth
Half-elven


May 23 2015, 7:42am

Post #20 of 24 (3722 views)
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Whether 3 parts or 4, it's incredible writing. [In reply to] Can't Post

This, really, is the skill that has kept us here after all these years, that drives all the read-throughs & exhaustive analysis that never seems to run dry.

square, below, has presented a different but equally compelling analysis of this one, brief sentence. There are so many such examples of truly masterful writing in these books we can only salute.








noWizardme
Half-elven


May 23 2015, 8:19am

Post #21 of 24 (3734 views)
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I agree [In reply to] Can't Post

Someone (was it "Curious"?) used to present sections of the book as blank verse (by inserting line breaks, but making no other changes). The prose stood up to it. Maybe one could, theoretically, use that method to turn the whole story into a decent epic poem!

~~~~~~

"nowimë I am in the West, Furincurunir to the Dwarves (or at least, to their best friend) and by other names in other lands. Mostly they just say 'Oh no it's him - look busy!' "
Or "Hold off! unhand me, grey-beard loon!"

My avatar image s looking a bit blue, following the rumbling of my 2 "secrets" Wink : http://newboards.theonering.net/...i?post=855358#855358

This year LOTR turns 60. The following image is my LOTR 60th anniversary party footer! You can get yours here: http://newboards.theonering.net/...i?post=762154#762154


squire
Half-elven


May 23 2015, 1:29pm

Post #22 of 24 (3722 views)
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LotR as a blank verse epic poem [In reply to] Can't Post

Curious enjoyed those exercises, but I felt they over-did his point, broke the existing rhythms that the author had labored to create, and made the resulting readings too portentous to be borne.

What he was correctly identifying, without the need to contort strong prose into bad poetry, is that Tolkien wrote his best stories with constant attention to how they sounded when read aloud. As we know, he read large portions of his later works in progress to the Inklings. I also think much of the improvement that first appears in his mythic writing style in the 1930s comes from his experience in reading stories aloud to his children. We see this not just in The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, but also in the later revisions to the Silmarillion cycle.

Christopher Tolkien often remarks on the scrawling and illegible manuscripts of LotR at some of the best and most inspired passages. I have always imagined Tolkien at those points, late at night with the house asleep, breathlessly muttering the story as it comes to him and desperately taking it simultaneously as dictation.



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd & 4th TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion and NOW the 1st BotR Discussion too! and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


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Elizabeth
Half-elven


May 24 2015, 7:23am

Post #23 of 24 (3695 views)
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Reading Tolkien aloud... [In reply to] Can't Post

...isn't done nearly often enough!

Any of you who are sufficiently dedicated to be hanging out in the Reading Room but haven't experienced the J. R. R. Tolkien Audio Collection should remedy this at once! This collection mostly consists of the Professor himself reading selections from The Hobbit and LotR, with a few tracks of Christopher reading from the Sil. I read somewhere that most of the LotR recordings were made by a friend of his when he was laboring to get the books published. In any case, they are priceless. "The Ride of the Rohirrim" brings me to tears every time.








Maciliel
Valinor


Jun 6 2015, 4:38pm

Post #24 of 24 (3528 views)
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another strong recommendation for the unabridged lotr, as read by robert inglis [In reply to] Can't Post

 
another treat which i never tire of is the unabridged audio book of lotr, as read by robert inglis. that fellow is +truly+ gifted, and even though he is one person, the effect is of a vast, ensemble cast, each of whom has a different voice, different texture, and is equally gifted in emoting.

his gollum is truly exceptional.

cheers --- t


aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo

 
 

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