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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
**LotR: The Bridge of Khazad-dūm, 4: Balrog! **
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squire
Half-elven


May 22 2015, 12:53am

Post #26 of 32 (911 views)
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I would very much enjoy that [In reply to] Can't Post

I hope you pursue it - it's not mean spirited at all.

We have considered, very occasionally, a Reading Room discussion of HoME. It rarely gets very far.



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd & 4th TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion and NOW the 1st BotR Discussion too! and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


= Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.


Elizabeth
Half-elven


May 22 2015, 2:09am

Post #27 of 32 (909 views)
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Ooh, I remember that one. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
New Uncertainties and New Projections (HoME VI, The Return of the Shadow) - 20 pp. of extremely confused notes about how to resolve the plot of the "New Hobbit" after over a year's work. Favorite comment by C. Tolkien: "the textual-chronological questions that now arise are of peculiar difficulty".


It's been a bunch of years since I read the "History of the Lord of the Rings" part of HOME, but it seemed to me at the time that the Professor spent about the first five years deciding how many hobbits were going to Rivendell and what their names were.








CuriousG
Half-elven


May 22 2015, 11:39am

Post #28 of 32 (899 views)
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Then did Theoden ride to glory at sunset [In reply to] Can't Post

--must buy carrots, eggs, milk
--cheese too, but not the Swiss kind

and thundering after him came his knights, their armor glistening in the morning's first rays.

--need stamps, and don't forget Edith's birthday (again), or shel'll go Balrog on me
--grade student papers, except that idiot Ian from Leeds; why isn't he expelled??? Dumber than Butterbur on a drunken night

>>>That could be fun. :)


Brethil
Half-elven


May 22 2015, 12:25pm

Post #29 of 32 (894 views)
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Agreed! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Gandalf's sacrifice, and Frodo's "unreasonable" pity for Gollum, are both choices apparently approved by Eru and rewarded with grace beyond hope--Gandalf's supercharged return, and the destruction of the Ring through Gollum's agency, despite Frodo's failure.




In Reply To

'The Quest :. was bound to fail as a piece of world plan' (#181). Frodo's choice, similar to Gandalf's in appearing to be catastrophic yet one that reflects a sense of faith and humility, was to pity and forgive the treacherous and dangerous Gollum (who was unable to NOT turn on Frodo, due to his weaknesses). In which case the events at the Fire are similar in certain moral ways to the events at the Bridge from Gandalf's and Frodo's perspectives. Good connection, CG. Cool





With Gandalf's return being a standout interjection if Eru into the story - albeit anonymously in the text.









noWizardme
Half-elven


May 22 2015, 1:01pm

Post #30 of 32 (889 views)
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In HoME 6 and 7 particularly, You get an interesting study of a writer at work [In reply to] Can't Post

As you say, Tolkien agrees to write a 'The Hobbit' sequel, but is not sure what will happen.

I was reading this at about the time I began to write fiction myself and found it wonderfully reassuring. My key discovery was that Tolkien keept going, writing whatever bit he currently can. Sometimes he just tries to keep his latest chapter moving forwards. Sometimes he does plot plotlines (what Christopher Tolkien calls 'The story foreseen from [Point X]' ). Sometimes what starts out as a plot summary suddenly breaks out into full drafting.

What doesn't always come across always in HoME (because of thoroughly sensible editorial decisions about the sequence in which to present all this material) is that Tolkien worked out ideas far ahead of the point he'd currently reached (e.g. he had the gist of the Mount Doom scene very early on). Wandering off on a bearing to see what happened was certainly not his only writing method.

Often, of course it doesn't work. He attaches riders and margin notes, trying things, arguing with himself as to whether the story is working, or ought to be changed. He has to go back and re-write; shore things up, make changes. Sometimes whole plotlines cave in, or he writes stuff that he decides to cut. Sometimes, he seems convinced that a particular thing happened, & is scratching his head to work out how come: how can that idea be saved from an otherwise disastrous draft.

It's not that the whole thing keeps plodding forward - sometimes it is plodding backwards, or round in circles, or stopping altogether. Like one of his own characters, he can't always see that it's going to be OK!

~~~~~~

"nowimė I am in the West, Furincurunir to the Dwarves (or at least, to their best friend) and by other names in other lands. Mostly they just say 'Oh no it's him - look busy!' "
Or "Hold off! unhand me, grey-beard loon!"

My avatar image s looking a bit blue, following the rumbling of my 2 "secrets" Wink : http://newboards.theonering.net/...i?post=855358#855358

This year LOTR turns 60. The following image is my LOTR 60th anniversary party footer! You can get yours here: http://newboards.theonering.net/...i?post=762154#762154


noWizardme
Half-elven


May 22 2015, 1:37pm

Post #31 of 32 (894 views)
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oh, all right then... [In reply to] Can't Post

It is Friday afternoon (in my timezone...)

Something like this look at the difficulties of reconstructing JRR Tolkien's thoughts from his drafts in cacographic handwriting on eccentric or improvised wartime stationery:


Quote
"Draft F of the Balrog scene is written once more in a near-illegible scrawl in hasty, light pencil. The final page contains some earlier notes that have been erased and over-written, but are in places still just legible through the main drafting. Just possibly it records a discarded idea in which my father envisaged Hamilcar Bolger coming to a gruesome end at the hands of the Balrog. I have been able to make out the following erased words:

Ham [ilcar?]...

sliced... off the bone

orc (?) chops

minced [illegible]

dripping...


and at a later point:

or if (?) they have no...

.... awful [or possibly 'offal'?] ,

Trotters - only if ... we cannot get out [or possibly - 'trout']



The dating of these earlier notes is problematic, and whether these represent early ideas for Lord Of The Rings cannot be certain. Perhaps this page is merely written over what was a shopping list."

(HoME V 7a The Treason of NoWizardMe)


It's just amazing C Tolkien extracted so much!
Wink

~~~~~~

"nowimė I am in the West, Furincurunir to the Dwarves (or at least, to their best friend) and by other names in other lands. Mostly they just say 'Oh no it's him - look busy!' "
Or "Hold off! unhand me, grey-beard loon!"

My avatar image s looking a bit blue, following the rumbling of my 2 "secrets" Wink : http://newboards.theonering.net/...i?post=855358#855358

This year LOTR turns 60. The following image is my LOTR 60th anniversary party footer! You can get yours here: http://newboards.theonering.net/...i?post=762154#762154


squire
Half-elven


May 22 2015, 5:43pm

Post #32 of 32 (885 views)
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That's what comes of mucking about too much with the bones of the soup! [In reply to] Can't Post

Dead on, and thank you!



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd & 4th TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion and NOW the 1st BotR Discussion too! and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


= Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.

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