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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Roäc

Smaug the iron
Gondor

May 10 2015, 11:17am

Post #1 of 24 (1973 views)
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Roäc Can't Post

What did you think of Roäc in the film.


Elarie
Grey Havens

May 10 2015, 1:29pm

Post #2 of 24 (1789 views)
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I thought it was nicely done [In reply to] Can't Post

I was very happy to see the raven included in the film, and they did a nice job of solving the "talking animal" problem. However, I suspect that audience members who had never read the book probably didn't know the significance of the raven or what exactly was going on except perhaps that the raven was some kind of messenger bird.

__________________

Gold is the strife of kinsmen,
and fire of the flood-tide,
and the path of the serpent.

(Old Icelandic Fe rune poem)


Shagrat
Gondor

May 10 2015, 1:42pm

Post #3 of 24 (1776 views)
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Is there more to see? [In reply to] Can't Post

We see Roac flying off, but nothing leading up to that. Will the EE restore a scene explaining his departure? You could argue that to do so would spoil the surprise of Dain, but remember the Army of the Dead dynamic changed completely in the ROTK: EE.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


May 10 2015, 1:47pm

Post #4 of 24 (1774 views)
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Re: Roäc [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm still hoping (but not holding my breath) that Roäc and his kin get a line or two of dialog in the extended edition of TH:BotFA.

Note that it was his descendants and not Roäc himself who performed messenger duties in the book. The wise old bird was just too decrepid.

"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock


CathrineB
Rohan


May 10 2015, 6:48pm

Post #5 of 24 (1678 views)
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Surprised [In reply to] Can't Post

I was actually surprised he was in the movie. I loved that he wasn't forgotten or ignored. Loved even more than he didn't talk because talking animals just makes me think of bad childrens movies and Narnia (and I'm not a huge fan of the Narnia movies).


dormouse
Half-elven


May 10 2015, 7:02pm

Post #6 of 24 (1673 views)
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Loved seeing the raven... [In reply to] Can't Post

Whether it was Roac himself or one of his kin, it was a joy to see him fly off in search of Dain, and his return even more so. I love that shot of him perched on the wall near Thorin. It looks just right and it's obvious that he is speaking even though we don't hear it.


DanielLB
Immortal


May 11 2015, 7:44am

Post #7 of 24 (1552 views)
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Honestly ... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
What did you think of Roäc in the film.


It was a really nice touch, and a surprise. I stayed away from most spoilers for the last movie, so I don't know it would be included. But in my growing bitterness I now can't help but think: "Game of Thrones uses real ravens, why can't a $250 million budget movie?" Angelic



dormouse
Half-elven


May 11 2015, 2:47pm

Post #8 of 24 (1484 views)
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*Rolls eyes*..... [In reply to] Can't Post

Now you're just being picky! Evil


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


May 11 2015, 3:43pm

Post #9 of 24 (1458 views)
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Is he? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Now you're just being picky! Evil


Actually, I think that Daniel makes a good point!

"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock


Bofur01
Lorien


May 11 2015, 3:59pm

Post #10 of 24 (1448 views)
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Greenscreening a real raven... [In reply to] Can't Post

Into a fully CG environment would never end well...


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


May 11 2015, 4:05pm

Post #11 of 24 (1437 views)
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Possibly... [In reply to] Can't Post

...but I don't think that it needed to come to that.

"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock


AshNazg
Gondor


May 11 2015, 4:09pm

Post #12 of 24 (1439 views)
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I'm glad it was CG! [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not one to defend BoFA often, but I've said before Roac was possibly my favourite inclusion.

I love that he was CG because it meant that the artists could design him to look like more than just a raven. They gave him this identifiable mark on his head, which I see as a nod to his bald-spot in the book.

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/...-RARBG-19-39-50-.JPG


dormouse
Half-elven


May 11 2015, 6:37pm

Post #13 of 24 (1400 views)
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I'm teasing Daniel, Otaku, just teasing.... [In reply to] Can't Post

... and I think Daniel will realise that.

But looked at logically, I think I could build up a case that The Hobbit, having a very large budget (can't remember the figure) can afford to design a nice, quiet, obedient CGI raven that will fly on cue, adopt just the right attitude when it lands, and can be relied on not to poo, squawk or drop feathers....

Game of Thrones, being TV and a poor relation, had to manage with the real thing! Wink

*Ducks back into teapot, giggling*


Starling
Half-elven


May 11 2015, 7:06pm

Post #14 of 24 (1391 views)
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You should do something about that growing bitterness [In reply to] Can't Post

You need to get your mind off things. Maybe start another PhD. Angelic




DanielLB
Immortal


May 12 2015, 6:15am

Post #15 of 24 (1334 views)
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Markings? [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't see any. That's just light reflecting off of its feathers.



DanielLB
Immortal


May 12 2015, 6:18am

Post #16 of 24 (1334 views)
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Picky, but true. [In reply to] Can't Post

Especially when the CGI isn't that convincing, either. If The Hobbit trilogy had been made over 10 years ago, I doubt we would have seen CG hedgehogs (AUJ), as well as a white stag (DOS) or raven (BO5A). Tongue

(I know you're pulling my leg)



Eruwestial37
Rohan

May 13 2015, 4:40am

Post #17 of 24 (1240 views)
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New Zealand law [In reply to] Can't Post

Is apparently very strict regarding non-native wildlife. Remember PJ's explanation about why he couldn't have the fox in LOTR.
Ravens aren't native there any more than foxes or hedgehogs are.


Bombadil
Half-elven


May 13 2015, 5:08am

Post #18 of 24 (1234 views)
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"The Talking Animals" Motif in Literature? [In reply to] Can't Post

WOW that IDEA goes WAyBACK...BUT

Thank Goodness PJ did NOT
{Except for the Spiders}
since it might have RUINED the Absolute
Seriousness of the "DURIN TRAGEDY"

The HEROS in the LOTR ended in Marriages
The Heros in the TH ended with Funerals

BIG Difference..
Crazy

www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"


DanielLB
Immortal


May 13 2015, 6:13am

Post #19 of 24 (1222 views)
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They have rooks though, don't they? [In reply to] Can't Post

Better than dressing a kiwi up as a raven.

And I also thought they had (invasive) hedgehogs?



Starling
Half-elven


May 13 2015, 7:46am

Post #20 of 24 (1212 views)
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We have rooks [In reply to] Can't Post

If I see one I am supposed to inform Biosecurity as they are listed as an unwanted organism.
I have never seen one as there is active rook control in the region I live in.
Which leads me to wonder what they used when they filmed that "If I take one more step..." scene in FOTR with Sam and Frodo.

Once upon a time there was an endemic New Zealand raven, sadly gone the way of so many New Zealand birds.

We have plenty of hedgehogs, equally loved and loathed, depending on how they do or do not affect people and other animals and birdlife. By coincidence, I just watched an item on TV about hedgehog rescue, whose services I have used a number of times. They are not supported by DOC as hedgehogs are classed as pests. I always look after hedgehogs and rescue them as necessary, and luckily we have a hedgehog friendly vet nearby. They are useful creatures in city gardens.




dormouse
Half-elven


May 13 2015, 8:37am

Post #21 of 24 (1205 views)
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Reading your post... [In reply to] Can't Post

..I had a sudden mental image of a big burly New Zealander dressed up in a feathery suit - a bit like the chicken suits in the London Marathon, only black.....


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


May 13 2015, 2:21pm

Post #22 of 24 (1171 views)
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But? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Is apparently very strict regarding non-native wildlife. Remember PJ's explanation about why he couldn't have the fox in LOTR.
Ravens aren't native there any more than foxes or hedgehogs are.


Well, there already was a raven, whether it was live or CG. If it was a CG bird then wildlife restrictions do no apply.

"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


May 13 2015, 2:24pm

Post #23 of 24 (1176 views)
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Disagaree [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
WOW that IDEA goes WAyBACK...BUT

Thank Goodness PJ did NOT
{Except for the Spiders}
since it might have RUINED the Absolute
Seriousness of the "DURIN TRAGEDY"


Any scenes with a talking Roac would have taken place long before Thorin's death. They would have had no impact on the tragedy of the situation. And if they were done well in the first place then they would not have been disruptive at all.

"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock


Bumblingidiot
Rohan

May 13 2015, 11:27pm

Post #24 of 24 (1104 views)
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Birds are one of very few types of animal capable of physical human sounding speech. [In reply to] Can't Post

Not all species, though. But, as ravens and other corvids are considered amongst the most intelligent birds, and as there is some evidence that there can be a level of genuine communication in the use of human sounding speech by African Grey parrots, a talking raven would be one of the more realistic creatures in the films, compared to say an intelligent moth or a giant eagle.

The main problem with talking birds in films is that they are usually used to provide farcical comedy plot points - in the Carry On films for example, so there is a danger of the tone being compromised, but towards a comedy rather than a children's film. The nice thing about the raven in the film was that it was an instance of PJ trusting the audience's intelligence, by hinting rather than explaining what it was up to - something that he has done less with these films than he did with LOTR (I suspect Warner Bro's had something to do with this).


In Reply To
I was actually surprised he was in the movie. I loved that he wasn't forgotten or ignored. Loved even more than he didn't talk because talking animals just makes me think of bad childrens movies and Narnia (and I'm not a huge fan of the Narnia movies).


"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."

 
 

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