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Bombadil
Half-elven
May 5 2015, 12:08am
Post #26 of 34
(919 views)
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Well, there was a SLIGHT Set-UP..?
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In the Tent scene jus' before Bilbo showed up
with the Arkenstone...
Thranndy :"..these ORC Armies? where are they?"
Gandalf has no answer.
So since we saw Azog halt his Army with the MOUNTAIN in view..
& Then he send Bolg to Gundabad...
We don't see his Moria orcs again UNTIL
They show up from underground..?
There were SSOoo many plot lines goin' on @ this time..
that we DIDn't know either..?
ONCE again, in the EE
we might find out where they went?
We all know this Battle was a bit of an "Editing Mess",
SSOoo..MAYBE?
They COULD be BLINDED by the Light & just retreat back inside?
THIS mystery could be solved with ONE more SHOT?
www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"
(This post was edited by Bombadil on May 5 2015, 12:14am)
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dormouse
Half-elven
May 5 2015, 7:32am
Post #27 of 34
(883 views)
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Bolg's army don't do anything because they're set upon by a host of eagles, Radagast, Beorn and whoever else is with them. It's just that we don't get to see very much of that happening.
As far as the worms go, they surely did what they were meant to do - they made the tunnels that allowed Azog's army to reach the battlefield unseen. I take it that was meant to be all they can do - they didn't seem to be built for fighting.
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Bombadil
Half-elven
May 5 2015, 10:18am
Post #28 of 34
(880 views)
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IT takes Radagast to "RALLY the Eagles"..
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Gandalf says after Dol Guldur : "I need a Horse"
&....
"Summon your Birds, Your Beasts.."
SSOoo..we have Raddy on Gwahir & Boern on another
Chieftain {Mendelor?..}... leading the Charge..
more or Less Completely Wiping out the Gundabad Forces..
&....
Then, basically doing MAJOR MOP-up duty,
clearing out any stray BATS...who might still be
Patrolling the Sky.
WHEN their Massive Shadows? cover up the Sun ...
The Leaderless ORCS retreat back into the WormHoles.
In some ways that is.. "Raddy to the Rescue", once again..
which is very Fine Role for him.
Will he & Beorn attend the Funeral?...Bom Votes YES!
www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"
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Noria
Gondor
May 7 2015, 12:27pm
Post #29 of 34
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The worms were on the screen for what, twenty seconds?
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What I see here is basically is “Tolkien didn't create them so I don’t like them”, which is a perfectly valid opinion with which I happen to disagree. In my view, Tolkien created some things that were just as unlikely or ridiculous and I have no problem with most of those either.
I got a kick out of the worms, both for themselves and as a possible homage to Dune. However there is nothing to say that these creatures are anything but diggers and they may not have any fighting ability whatsoever. Maybe they could have rolled on people 
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Milieuterrien
Rohan
May 7 2015, 8:49pm
Post #30 of 34
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Worms are there to build the thrill
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There was simply no other way for the orc army to suddenly show out in the midst of the pre-battle between dwarves and elves.
For Tolkien it took words (unexpected and so on), for PJ it had to be pictured (as always). And the thrill follows.
Any other ways would have seen the dwarves and the elves talking about the approach of the detected orcs instead of disputing for battle.
Not very Tolkienesque ?
A tiny bit of Tolkien is enough when there are no other ways.
And a little bit of Dune is also welcome even if the link seems too obvious.
For the 'how ?', I think we can admit that orcs or goblins may frequently use worms to dig their beloved holes for they don't like to dig by themselves.
They can have the worms on their sides while tricking them into believing that some 'spice' is to be found.
And for the skeptical ones, Dain's "Come ON !' pleasantly closes the debate IMO.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
May 7 2015, 9:50pm
Post #31 of 34
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There was simply no other way for the orc army to suddenly show out in the midst of the pre-battle between dwarves and elves.
Well, not from the south at least. Using the broken lands in the north for cover still works for the army coming from Gundabad.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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Milieuterrien
Rohan
May 8 2015, 7:36am
Post #32 of 34
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The army from Gundabad was a reserve
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Apparently, Azog didn't intend to use that army at first hand. Azog meets Bolg after Smaug's demise, then sends Bolg to Gundabad to hurry those reinforcements back to Erebor.
Nobody, Bolg & Sauron included, expected Smaug to be killed above Laketown. Azog's plans were to attack with both armies later on, but he first had to hurry his Dol Guldur army when he learned that the Dwarves intended to already to reach Erebor. Smaug's help would have crushed easily elves and men with Dolg Guldur orcs alone. But Smaug dead, a second army was needed by Azog to help finishing the job, but this was too late.
Gundabad orcs were a reserve army, maybe intended for further attacks or defenses if Gondorians (from the south) or Iron Hills Dwarves (from the East) would attack later on, intending to expell orcs out of Dale and surroundings. What is kept relatively unclear is how Azog could have planned to 'trap Durin's lineage in Ravenhill'
In the end, Azog and his orcs are crushed because dwarves 'succeeded' in surviving Smaug, irritating him to his demise (while Sauron is expelled because of Gandalf, Radagast and Galadriel mostly)
Bilbo himself helped to save the day :
1) Helping the dwarves to reach Erebor (saving them from the spiders, the Mirkwood elves, and even Laketown men when he interceded in favor of Thorin)
2) Helping them also to survive Smaug's wrath (unwillingly turning the 'revenge' of the Dragon against Laketown men instead of dwarves when he called himself 'barrel rider')
2) Helping further to make peace with elves and men (giving Bard some stuff worth of negociation)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
May 8 2015, 1:42pm
Post #33 of 34
(700 views)
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Not sure about a reserve force.
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I'm not sure that a second army was part of Sauron's plan at all until it was reported that Thorin had reached the Mountain. There could have been a plan for the two forces to rendezvous there and join with Smaug to march on their nearest target. Lothlorien would be the most logical goal; although capturing Lake-town on the way would be a good strategic decision. I think that the next goal would have been to march on Rivendell; but, it is possible that Sauron would want to invade the Woodland Realm first rather than leave Thranduil at his back.
Back to Erebor. Once it was known that armies of the Free Peoples were gathering at the Lonely Mountain, I think that Azog's strategy would have been to hit them in waves. much as did the goblins of the book. I don't think that Bolg's army would have been held back unless victory was already achieved before he could order the attack. Unfortunately, arriving from underground did not allow Azog to assess the situation before his army was revealed. Otherwise he might have let the armies of the Free Peoples exhaust themselves against each other before stepping in with his Orcs.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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Milieuterrien
Rohan
May 8 2015, 9:45pm
Post #34 of 34
(676 views)
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Yep, it surely was the dumbest moment to show
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The elves and the dwarves were together, all armed and fed, and they were holding back Erebor.
Should the orcs show themselves two hours later, they'd have won almost without fighting.
Remember. Never take Tolkien too seriously. ;-)
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