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QuackingTroll
Valinor
May 2 2015, 12:13am
Post #1 of 33
(3167 views)
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Big soundtrack mistake in The Hobbit
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https://youtu.be/TBu-YCuYhPc
I totally agree with this. It's as if Shore was annoyed that the iconic theme wasn't written by him, so he replaced it with his own. Shore's theme is fine, but it doesn't carry the emotional weight of what we'd heard before.
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QuackingTroll
Valinor
May 2 2015, 12:16am
Post #2 of 33
(3047 views)
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How often the Fellowship theme plays in The Two Towers?
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Mooseboy018
Grey Havens
May 2 2015, 12:58am
Post #3 of 33
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I definitely missed the theme in the last two movies. I was even crossing my fingers for it to make a triumphant return during the dwarf charge.
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Mooseboy018
Grey Havens
May 2 2015, 1:01am
Post #4 of 33
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I can only think of two off the top of my head:
The Three Hunters chasing the uruk-hai
Aragorn tossing Gimli at Helm's Deep
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shadow0421
Bree
May 2 2015, 2:55am
Post #5 of 33
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in another thread a while ago. I think someone might have mentioned that maybe PJ couldn't get permission from Plan 9 to use it in the last 2 movies. Maybe they were asking too much? Just speculating. I know one thing, they used the crap out of it in the first movie!
http://www.amagpiesnest.com/a/torn/fotr60/01.jpg
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CathrineB
Rohan
May 2 2015, 4:42am
Post #6 of 33
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While I agree with everything and absolutely love that theme its titled Misty Mountains which is a mountain range that is a huge part of the first movie but is done with by the time DoS and BotfA come. Singing about those mountains now makes no sense whe n its all about the Lonely Mountain now. If anything its the Song of the Lonely Mountain from the first movie that could have been the theme.
Instead its Durins theme that takes over as main theme and its a gorgeous one if you ask me. The charge? I mean wow. Thorin and Balin entering Erebor for the first time in so many years, thorin returning to himself, thorin fili and kili parting ways in Lake Town... theme shows up many times.
Wow okay got out of hand there. But in the long run yeah I too missed the first theme from AUJ. The non singing parts works amazingly. DOS soundtrack lacks the epic soundtrack.
(This post was edited by CathrineB on May 2 2015, 4:48am)
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SafeUnderHill
Rohan
May 2 2015, 6:49am
Post #7 of 33
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https://youtu.be/TBu-YCuYhPc I totally agree with this. It's as if Shore was annoyed that the iconic theme wasn't written by him, so he replaced it with his own. Shore's theme is fine, but it doesn't carry the emotional weight of what we'd heard before.
People wish the Misty Mountain theme was featured in DOS and BOTFA which is fair enough. But if Shore was annoyed with it not being his own theme, he wouldn't have featured it in the AUJ score.
Honestly I really like the Sons of Durin, I much prefer the music there to the Misty Mountain theme. I think the Misty Mountain theme was used a bit too often in AUJ and they wanted something new, and a much darker score with DOS. In fact, the theme at the start of Sons of Durin is the first theme we ever hear in the Hobbiy trilogy (it plays during the AUJ opening logos).
(This post was edited by SafeUnderHill on May 2 2015, 6:54am)
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Bofur01
Lorien
May 2 2015, 6:59am
Post #8 of 33
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The final statement of Misty Mountains in AUJ was yucky...
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The AUJ score relied on it too much, I think.... And anyway, there are 4 other Dwarven themes: Thorin, Erebor, the House of Durin, and Dain.
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Shagrat
Gondor
May 2 2015, 8:59am
Post #9 of 33
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This is entirely subjective. Take the moment we glimpse the Lonely Mountain as pointed out in the video - the Thorin's theme used there actually makes me well up a little, it's beautiful. The Misty Mountains themes we have simply wouldn't work there.
I too adore the Misty Mountains theme, and while I'd like to have heard the theme return at various points, the House of Durin theme is arguably better, and the increased prominence of Thorin's theme was also appreciated. And I find both to be very emotional themes. Take, for example, the charge from Erebor. We have the House of Durin followed by a simply magnificent rendition of Thorin's theme. Shore couldn't have scored it any better - it's very possibly his best work on The Hobbit. Yet I see people trying to replace it with an existing rendition of the Misty Mountains theme which simply doesn't fit. If Shore had done a new version for this scene, complete with giant Khuzdul chorus, would it have worked? Of course. But he didn't. And certainly we cannot possibly improve on his music for the scene with only what we have.
The onus is on the audience to acknowledge and appreciate the other themes, the Dwarven themes coming to the fore. Fans should have an emotional attachment to Thorin's theme by this point. They should appreciate it playing later, when he passes, or when Bilbo is talking to Balin before leaving. This is the emotional connection - we first heard this theme less than 5 minutes into AUJ; indeed, we'd heard it several times before the Misty Mountains song. For me, a far, far bigger loss musically was the absence of Bilbo's main theme throughout the three films (bar the credits of AUJ), or even the Radagast material in AUJ.
(This post was edited by Shagrat on May 2 2015, 9:06am)
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CathrineB
Rohan
May 2 2015, 9:11am
Post #10 of 33
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I too adore the Misty Mountains theme, and while I'd like to have heard the theme return at various points, the House of Durin theme is arguably better, and the increased prominence of Thorin's theme was also appreciated. And I find both to be very emotional themes. Take, for example, the charge from Erebor. We have the House of Durin followed by a simply magnificent rendition of Thorin's theme. Shore couldn't have scored it any better - it's very possibly his best work on The Hobbit. Yet I see people trying to replace it with an existing rendition of the Misty Mountains theme which simply doesn't fit. If Shore had done a new version for this scene, complete with giant Khuzdul chorus, would it have worked? Of course. But he didn't. And certainly we cannot possibly improve on his music for the scene with only what we have.
I've noticed this too! Before BotfA and more around the time of AUJ's release I did imagine the charge from the mountain with the misty mountains theme because how epic wouldn't that be?
But then what we got was perfection and it was a theme actually fitting the actions we're seeing. So when people keep adding the other theme to it it's... why?? It's glorious as it is!
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SafeUnderHill
Rohan
May 2 2015, 9:21am
Post #11 of 33
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This is entirely subjective. Take the moment we glimpse the Lonely Mountain as pointed out in the video - the Thorin's theme used there actually makes me well up a little, it's beautiful. The Misty Mountains themes we have simply wouldn't work there.
I too adore the Misty Mountains theme, and while I'd like to have heard the theme return at various points, the House of Durin theme is arguably better, and the increased prominence of Thorin's theme was also appreciated. And I find both to be very emotional themes. Take, for example, the charge from Erebor. We have the House of Durin followed by a simply magnificent rendition of Thorin's theme. Shore couldn't have scored it any better - it's very possibly his best work on The Hobbit. Yet I see people trying to replace it with an existing rendition of the Misty Mountains theme which simply doesn't fit. If Shore had done a new version for this scene, complete with giant Khuzdul chorus, would it have worked? Of course. But he didn't. And certainly we cannot possibly improve on his music for the scene with only what we have.
The onus is on the audience to acknowledge and appreciate the other themes, the Dwarven themes coming to the fore. Fans should have an emotional attachment to Thorin's theme by this point. They should appreciate it playing later, when he passes, or when Bilbo is talking to Balin before leaving. This is the emotional connection - we first heard this theme less than 5 minutes into AUJ; indeed, we'd heard it several times before the Misty Mountains song. For me, a far, far bigger loss musically was the absence of Bilbo's main theme throughout the three films (bar the credits of AUJ), or even the Radagast material in AUJ.
I 100% agree with this.
I've got to say that I find that final statement of Thorin's theme as Bilbo talks to Balin before is so powerful. Not only is it gorgeously sombre, but it's the final statement of his theme as he passes in legend. Brilliant Stuff!
In fact I find all of the final Thorin's theme statements in BOTFA are very moving.
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tattooed_dwarf
Rivendell
May 2 2015, 9:29am
Post #12 of 33
(2810 views)
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This would have worked so well.
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*Link removed - copyright violation*
People keep saying it wouldn't fit since it's about Misty Mountains, but I think it would have been perfect. Reason is that it's basically theme for company of dwarves, and that charge is the last time whole company is together.
(This post was edited by entmaiden on May 8 2015, 5:49pm)
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Estel78
Tol Eressea
May 2 2015, 9:50am
Post #13 of 33
(2800 views)
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To the point that it became overbearing
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I didn't like the action-y renditions of the theme. So honestly, i don't much miss it. And the scene the youtuber showed as an example works much better with the soundtrack that is in the movie.
It is weird, though, that a theme so prominently featured just disappears.
in another thread a while ago. I think someone might have mentioned that maybe PJ couldn't get permission from Plan 9 to use it in the last 2 movies. Maybe they were asking too much? Just speculating. I know one thing, they used the crap out of it in the first movie!
(This post was edited by Estel78 on May 2 2015, 9:51am)
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SafeUnderHill
Rohan
May 2 2015, 10:15am
Post #14 of 33
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I don't think that works, but if Shore wrote a new statement of Misty Mountain theme for that scene it could have fit. However, I think the themes that are used in the film work brilliantly both as music and as concepts (the prophecy has been fulfilled, and the bell has rung).
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laurethiel1138
Registered User
May 2 2015, 10:49am
Post #15 of 33
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I too adore the Misty Mountains theme, and while I'd like to have heard the theme return at various points, the House of Durin theme is arguably better, and the increased prominence of Thorin's theme was also appreciated. And I find both to be very emotional themes. Take, for example, the charge from Erebor. We have the House of Durin followed by a simply magnificent rendition of Thorin's theme. Shore couldn't have scored it any better - it's very possibly his best work on The Hobbit. Yet I see people trying to replace it with an existing rendition of the Misty Mountains theme which simply doesn't fit. If Shore had done a new version for this scene, complete with giant Khuzdul chorus, would it have worked? Of course. But he didn't. And certainly we cannot possibly improve on his music for the scene with only what we have. I've noticed this too! Before BotfA and more around the time of AUJ's release I did imagine the charge from the mountain with the misty mountains theme because how epic wouldn't that be? But then what we got was perfection and it was a theme actually fitting the actions we're seeing. So when people keep adding the other theme to it it's... why?? It's glorious as it is!
The thing I've noticed, too, is that the Sons of Durin track uses some of the same notes as the Misty Mountains song, but orchestrated in a more nervous manner (repeats of the same notes v/s a sweeping theme), and with a darker tonality. So really, Shore respected the original framework as laid in AUJ, with the additional call-forward to the LOTR trilogy: the Khuzdul basso profundo chant bringing to mind the Moria scenes in FOTR, while the nervous violin strokes reminds us both of the lighting of the Beacons (The White Tree) and the final battle (The End of All Things) in ROTK.
All in all, I thought it a fitting soundtrack, anchoring the scene in gravitas and giving it a great pulsating energy. Sure, a reprise of the Misty Mountanis theme wouldn't have come amiss, but I can't say I'm disappointed by the choice made here.
"If this is to end in fire, then we shall all burn together."
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SafeUnderHill
Rohan
May 2 2015, 11:00am
Post #16 of 33
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Which part of Sons of Durin do you think uses the same notes as the Misty Mountain song?
In the grand orchestral statements, Shore weaved Thorin's theme in with the Misty Mountain theme. For example at 3:07-3:09 and 3:15-3:20 of 'OverHill'.
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Skaan
Lorien
May 2 2015, 11:57am
Post #17 of 33
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While i do think it's a shame we never hear the theme again in DoS and BOFA, and while it's also probably the most iconic and memorable theme from the trilogy, i do believe the House of Durin theme blows the Misty Mountains theme out of the water in terms of emotional weight.
I've said it before, but the only reason i miss it, is because the lack of the theme seems to break the continuity between the films a bit. But other than that, i don't miss it at all and there's a lot more themes that i find more catchy and emotional.
I do regret that we will never hear a choral rendition of the MM theme, though. Would've loved to hear that.
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SafeUnderHill
Rohan
May 2 2015, 12:35pm
Post #18 of 33
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While i do think it's a shame we never hear the theme again in DoS and BOFA, and while it's also probably the most iconic and memorable theme from the trilogy, i do believe the House of Durin theme blows the Misty Mountains theme out of the water in terms of emotional weight.
I've said it before, but the only reason i miss it, is because the lack of the theme seems to break the continuity between the films a bit. But other than that, i don't miss it at all and there's a lot more themes that i find more catchy and emotional.
I do regret that we will never hear a choral rendition of the MM theme, though. Would've loved to hear that.
We've had a choral rendition of the Misty Mountain theme since the first trailer came out ;)
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Noria
Gondor
May 2 2015, 12:36pm
Post #19 of 33
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I loved the MM theme but prefer Sons of Durin overall
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Great as it is, the MM theme was used enough in AUJ for my liking.
I am happy that the Sons of Durin, Erebor, Thorin's theme etc. became more prominent in the last two movies, particularly BOTFA.
I don't really care how they explain it. It seems to me that Shore was gracious enough to use the MM theme extensively in AUJ but then used his own music in the next two movies. It works for me.
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laurethiel1138
Registered User
May 2 2015, 12:59pm
Post #20 of 33
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Which part of Sons of Durin do you think uses the same notes as the Misty Mountain song?
In the grand orchestral statements, Shore weaved Thorin's theme in with the Misty Mountain theme. For example at 3:07-3:09 and 3:15-3:20 of 'OverHill'.
At the very start of Sons of Durin.
If we take the basic MM structure by syllable, say, far-o-ver-the-mi-sty-moun-tains-cold, the start of SoD (the first 12 seconds or so) is actually o-ver-ver-the-the-mi, o-ver-ver-moun-tains-cold. The rest of the track follows a classic theme-variations pattern from there, with a few more notes interpolated here and there, or phrases interrupted, and a few changes of keys.
I could, of course, be wrong in my assessment, but I think I'm not too far off. And it ony goes to show the genius of Howard Shore, that he could take so catchy a melody, turn it on its head, and make it his own.
"If this is to end in fire, then we shall all burn together."
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Skaan
Lorien
May 2 2015, 1:02pm
Post #21 of 33
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I actually had to think for a while before remembering what part you were talking about  brainfart there
But yeah, you know what i mean 
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Bofur01
Lorien
May 2 2015, 1:13pm
Post #22 of 33
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E-re-bor-is-the-great-est.... Co-untry-in-the-wo-rld.
That fits, too! Oh the genius!
(This post was edited by Bofur01 on May 2 2015, 1:15pm)
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xxxyyy
Rohan
May 2 2015, 1:14pm
Post #23 of 33
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MM theme was overused in AUJ. I'm glad they didn't use it again.
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The whole trilogy would have ended up in a big pile of cheesyness.
Imagine every action scene undelined with that them... good Lord...
I love the Misty Mountains theme, yes.
I adore when Thorin sings it at Bag End... one of the best scenes in the entire 6 movie saga.
But at the end of AUJ I almost hated it... now I'm fine with it, maybe because we do not hear it anymore.
And yes, I totally disagree on what this guy says at 4:10.
Misty mountains theme is about their lost home. Now they are there, back at Erebor. There's no need for that theme to be played.
And my God, that piece of music by Howard Shore when they see the Lonley mountain... it couldn't have been better than that.
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SafeUnderHill
Rohan
May 2 2015, 1:32pm
Post #24 of 33
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I get what you mean :) Although i'm not sure you got the notes exactly write
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Which part of Sons of Durin do you think uses the same notes as the Misty Mountain song?
In the grand orchestral statements, Shore weaved Thorin's theme in with the Misty Mountain theme. For example at 3:07-3:09 and 3:15-3:20 of 'OverHill'. At the very start of Sons of Durin. If we take the basic MM structure by syllable, say, far-o-ver-the-mi-sty-moun-tains-cold, the start of SoD (the first 12 seconds or so) is actually o-ver-ver-the-the-mi, o-ver-ver-moun-tains-cold. The rest of the track follows a classic theme-variations pattern from there, with a few more notes interpolated here and there, or phrases interrupted, and a few changes of keys. I could, of course, be wrong in my assessment, but I think I'm not too far off. And it ony goes to show the genius of Howard Shore, that he could take so catchy a melody, turn it on its head, and make it his own.
I've checked over the notes, and the 'the' in the MM theme is a different note to the 'the' in the House of Durin (it's a semitone higher).
Shore's dwarven themes are all closely connected. For example (using the actual notes for simplicity):
Thorin's Theme: C D EE B
Sons/House of Durin Theme:
A C DD EE A
A C DD C B G
Erebor Theme: A C A D A E
(For reference, in the same key)
Misty Mountain theme:
A (Far) C (Ov) D (er) F (the) G (mis) A (t) G (y) F (moun) E (tains) D (cold)
The notes C, D and E here are what really connect Shore's themes musically.
The Misty Mountain theme was written in line with the dwarven music Shore had established in LOTR, however I don't think Shore's Hobbit themes were specifically built off the song.
(This post was edited by SafeUnderHill on May 2 2015, 1:40pm)
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dormouse
Half-elven
May 2 2015, 1:39pm
Post #25 of 33
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.. I'd say it was the other way round. They used 'Misty Mountains' too much in AUJ. Those few moments when the dwarves sing the song in Bag End are spine-tingling perfection. I don't think we needed to keep hearing the orchestral versions running through the film - I'd rather have heard 'Sons of Durin'. It might have been nice, then, to have heard the dwarves singing more of 'Misty Mountains' at a later point in the story - or even just one of them humming the tune - but having said that, I can't imagine where it would have fitted.
Of one thing I'm very sure. For me, to hear a version of 'Misty Mountains' as Thorin leads the charge out of Erebor would have struck a horribly wrong note. The immediate association for me wouldn't have been images of the dwarves from AUJ - the emotional links talked about in the video you linked to. It would have been Tolkien's words, the words they sang - and when Thorin has just turned his back on the gold of Erebor the last thing I would want to hear is the dwarves singing about reclaiming the gold of Erebor!
'Misty Mountains' is perfect as a dwarf song. I think Howard Shore's theme is a much better vehicle to carry the story forward.
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