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lionoferebor
Rohan
Apr 30 2015, 5:09pm
Post #1 of 10
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Soundtrack vs. Film
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Has anyone noticed the slight differences between the BO5A soundtrack and what is actually heard in the film? The difference aren't huge - per say - but they're there.
For example the last few bars of The Fallen are different. This would be the part that plays during Fili's death. The last part that is the same from soundtrack to film are the drums that are heard as Azog drags him out...the same drums that cause Thorin and the others to turn back around. After that it changes. In the film the song ends with a soft, eerie melody sung in Elvish; on the soundtrack there is no Elven chorus. Instead it's very dark and dramatic with lots of drums and horns.
Someone had also pointed out in another there are changes to Sons of Durin though I'll have to listen and rewatch that part again to pinpoint where the changes occur.
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CathrineB
Rohan
Apr 30 2015, 8:12pm
Post #2 of 10
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Parts of 'to the Death' is different too. The part where the eagles arrive in the movie is switched around.
In the movie the eagle's theme comes first followed by a real epic battle theme. On the soundtrack the battle theme comes first then the eagles theme.
I don't know if it's different, but it disappoints me greatly that we never really get a good listen on 'Ironfoot' in the movie. We never hear the bagpipes in the movie I believe, but it is on the soundtrack. We do hear parts of the theme (without the bagpipes) just after the elves have jumped into battle over the dwarf army. It's easily my favorite song in the whole trilogy closely followed by 'Sons of Durin' (or the Durin's theme in general is very beautiful.)
I do believe the calm at the beginning of 'the Fallen' is the same used as when Thorin returns to the Company after having coming out of the sickness as when Fili is killed.
(This post was edited by CathrineB on Apr 30 2015, 8:14pm)
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Goldeneye
Lorien
Apr 30 2015, 8:29pm
Post #3 of 10
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I've never known a soundtrack to have as many unused/alternate/missing music cues as those of the Hobbit trilogy. Dreaming of Bag End, A Respectable Hobbit, Erebor, The Dwarf Lords, Ironfoot, and many other awesome themes across the trilogy were hardly even used in the finished films. I can only imagine how frustrating this was for Howard Shore to write such lovely music that was just cut out of the films.
I also believe that the amount of unused/alternate/missing cues is indicative of how much they were changing the films themselves during post-production.
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lionoferebor
Rohan
Apr 30 2015, 10:06pm
Post #4 of 10
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that is often the way in the world of cinema. It's no different than the actors who had their screen time cut or the art department building beautiful scenes only to have them replaced with green screen. I'm sure it's frustrating, but I would think someone like Howard Shore who has composed music for many films understands that sometimes having your work cut - while not always pleasant - is part of process.
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Bishop
Gondor
May 1 2015, 12:05pm
Post #5 of 10
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There are slight differences all over the place!
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A lot of those small changes are tough to notice, and of course this is typical of OST as they relate to their use in the film. I made the big mistake though of getting to know BOTFA OST intimately well before the film, and sometimes the changes bugged me. This is akin to falling in love with a beautiful trailer shot that never makes it into the movie, like my very favorite shot of all time of Bilbo Baggins happily pulling on his suspenders once he realizes his dishes aren't all broken.
One of my favorite sound track moments that was changed is :50-1:40 in Battle For the Mountain. The build up, glorious harmonic resolution, and sheer driving force of this section is compositional perfection. In the film the build up happens, but it doesn't resolve as it was recorded. Instead the build up awkwardly cuts, then the Elves theme is somewhat ham-fistedly jammed into it as they jump over the Dwarves, and then it picks up where it left off. While I love Shore and I am a huge fan of his work, I actually found the use of thematic material a bit overly telegraphed in The Hobbit trilogy. But when comparing scenes like the one I just described to the OST I do wonder when and why certain decisions are made.
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Goldeneye
Lorien
May 1 2015, 2:31pm
Post #6 of 10
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Recording the music score is literally one of the last steps before a film is completed. This is because the composer needs what is called picture lock, which is the point where the film's cuts and edit points are firmly in place. When you hear the score change pace or change its motif due to the action on screen, that's because it is in sync with the picture lock. If you were to trim a scene by even half a second, it throws the entire score out of sync and you have to re-record. It is not cheap to get an entire orchestra into the studio for re-recordings!
So when I listen to Howard Shore's Hobbit scores and how different many of the tracks are compared to what made it into the films, I just have to imagine how difficult the scoring process was for him and his crew. The awkward cuts you refer to in the BOFA OST might be due to shots or scenes that Jackson removed from the theatrical cut, but had already been scored by Shore.
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SafeUnderHill
Rohan
May 1 2015, 8:37pm
Post #7 of 10
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Has anyone noticed the slight differences between the BO5A soundtrack and what is actually heard in the film? The difference aren't huge - per say - but they're there.
For example the last few bars of The Fallen are different. This would be the part that plays during Fili's death. The last part that is the same from soundtrack to film are the drums that are heard as Azog drags him out...the same drums that cause Thorin and the others to turn back around. After that it changes. In the film the song ends with a soft, eerie melody sung in Elvish; on the soundtrack there is no Elven chorus. Instead it's very dark and dramatic with lots of drums and horns.
Someone had also pointed out in another there are changes to Sons of Durin though I'll have to listen and rewatch that part again to pinpoint where the changes occur.
It's fun to see how the soundtrack changed when it was used in the final releases of the films, and also frustrating. With LOTR, they scored the film around September and then would rescore it in October/November time to make the changes according to the director. This was done with AUJ too.
However, with the final two scores (particularly BOTFA which had no rescoring sessions as far as I'm aware) they simply adjusted the score in the editing suite by cutting out parts the director wasn't happy with and shifting bits around as the final picture changes were made.
(This post was edited by SafeUnderHill on May 1 2015, 8:41pm)
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SafeUnderHill
Rohan
May 1 2015, 8:40pm
Post #8 of 10
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They've analysed the differences between the Hobbit scores and films in excruciating detail over at JWFan. I think you'll enjoy this thread. It has videos for every score track released, which are synced to the films so you can hear the music Howard Shore wrote as it was originally intended to be heard.
http://www.jwfan.com/....php?showtopic=23483
The first post of the thread is supposed to link to every video done so far (ranging from AUJ to BOTFA) but unfortunately it seems to have broken, with most of the links no longer there. Hopefully this issue can be fixed. All of the videos are still in the thread, however, such as 'The Fallen' which can be found here (just scroll down a bit to the bottom of the post):
http://www.jwfan.com/...=23483&p=1118948
(This post was edited by SafeUnderHill on May 1 2015, 8:44pm)
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Pandallo
Rivendell
May 2 2015, 3:54pm
Post #9 of 10
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As someone who loves removed elements in all media...
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That was a fascinating topic there SafeUnderHill! BloodBoia did an incredible job with placing all of the music, and it gives a good idea on what was cut and where. I'll have to look and see if he did those same video comparisons for the other movies and the EE and see if the EE's filled in most of the gaps.
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SafeUnderHill
Rohan
May 2 2015, 4:58pm
Post #10 of 10
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That was a fascinating topic there SafeUnderHill! BloodBoia did an incredible job with placing all of the music, and it gives a good idea on what was cut and where. I'll have to look and see if he did those same video comparisons for the other movies and the EE and see if the EE's filled in most of the gaps.
BloodBoal has put a lot of work into them, and has done a video for every track released so far. There are videos for AUJ, AUJ EE, DOS and DOS EE. Here are links to a few, but hopefully the first post of the thread (http://www.jwfan.com/...c=23483&p=924232)) will be fixed soon (it previously had a link to every video in the thread).
The Edge of the Wild (AUJ Bonus Track) - http://www.jwfan.com/...c=23483&p=992398
This features a journey theme for the dwarves that was never used in the films. It then goes to the High Fells scene, which was originally going to play here in AUJ. You can also hear the theme for the Witchking from ROTK play as gandalf wanders the Witchking's theme, pretty neat!
The High Fells (DOS) -
http://www.jwfan.com/...c=23483&p=995589
This features the same scene as above, but since it was moved to DOS, Shore rescored it.
The House of Beorn (DOS EE) -
http://www.jwfan.com/...=23483&p=1060641
Thrain (DOS EE, released on the BOTFA CD)
http://www.jwfan.com/...=23483&p=1071791
(This post was edited by SafeUnderHill on May 2 2015, 5:08pm)
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