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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
About this chariot scene in the EE

Shagrat
Gondor

Apr 29 2015, 10:54am

Post #1 of 14 (2295 views)
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About this chariot scene in the EE Can't Post

Our initial glimpses of the scene in trailers and BTS footage appeared to show four Dwarves on this contraption - Balin, Dwalin, Kili and Fili. A very recent interview Richard Armitage gave to Empire confirmed this (http://www.empireonline.com/...terview.asp?IID=2033).

So my question is this: how will this scene fit into the film as things stand? In the theatrical cut, Dwalin, Kili and Fili join Thorin in a ride to the Ravenhill quite soon after they emerge from Erebor. And yet the footage in the trailer clearly suggests that this scene takes place in the frozen river before Erebor (another bone of contention is that this river appears to be unfrozen by the time our heroes emerge, but that's a different matter entirely). So how can the three be with Balin down below? Where is Thorin during all of this?

At this point I'm wondering if the ram ride involving the four was merely a stop-gap and will be changed in some way. Of course, it may also be the case that many things have changed, and that, via the magic of CGI, this scene will now involved Balin and three other Dwarves on the ground. To be honest, I might actually prefer this since it would give some of the other Dwarves something to do, instead of the same prominent members of the Company.

The only other clue worth mentioning is about 30 seconds of unused music featuring the Warg motif at the end of 'Sons of Durin', which was surely intended to score this scene. You'd think this would give us a clear chronologically, but do note that this section of the soundtrack is far from orderly, with the snippet of 'House of Durin' heard when the Dwarves stand up inside Erebor coming just before this Warg music on the OST.


lionoferebor
Rohan

Apr 29 2015, 1:30pm

Post #2 of 14 (2139 views)
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It may be more that just adding it in... [In reply to] Can't Post

Typically in EE - at least with The Hobbit and LOTR - scenes have simply been added to the TE with no changes made to what was seen in theaters. However, in the EE of DOS changes were made to the theatrical cut to add in a couple of scenes. One of these scenes is when Bilbo wakes up at Beorn's house. In the TE when he wakes we can see the Dwarves in the background sitting around the table, in the EE the Dwarves are not gathered around the table in the background. Instead they are standing by the back door. PJ said they had to make this change in order to segue into the scene where the Company meets Beorn in his backyard. (I think it's the backyard). It's not a huge change from the TE, still it's a change.

Supposedly there is also a change from the TE to EE with the addition of Thrain at Dul Goldor, but I would have to watch the commentaries again to recall exactly what it was. It's possible PJ could make some slight changes to the theatrical cut in order to fit in the chariot scene.

Also with as tightly edited as BOTFA was - it's obvious there are scenes that have been removed which is not as apparent in the other TE of the previous films (both Hobbit and LOTR) - I would not be surprised if a few theatrical moments are altered to accommodate additional scenes for the EE.


Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea


Apr 29 2015, 2:02pm

Post #3 of 14 (2111 views)
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I think the dwarves would be replaced by CGI [In reply to] Can't Post

 

The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true

Survivor to the battle for the fifth trailer

Hobbit Cinema Marathon Hero



CathrineB
Rohan


Apr 29 2015, 2:30pm

Post #4 of 14 (2085 views)
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From what I have seen... [In reply to] Can't Post

I imagine they charge from Erebor and really, really hope we get more fighting with the dwarves we actually care about. I also imagine we now will have to see where these battle rams came from - meaning I assume is another dwarven army.

In there clearly someone had these chariots in which one is taken by Balin, Dwalin, Fili and Kili. I don't know where that leaves Thorin. Maybe he takes a loose one I dunno.

But I did see somewhere the chariot on ice and the wargs coming after them. One warg jumps and attacks one of the front rams (there are four of them). I imagine this kills that one ram and somewhere along the scene puts a stop to the chariot.
This leaves three rams with three of the dwarves that does end up at Ravenhill - none left for Balin which would explain why he isn't there.
Then they join Thorin who has found a ram on it's own.

That's how I guess it goes by one way or another anyway.

Don't ask me where I saw that clip of the ram being attacked. I don't think it was a finished clip, but a computer image still being worked on, but it was animation.


(This post was edited by CathrineB on Apr 29 2015, 2:33pm)


Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor


Apr 29 2015, 3:58pm

Post #5 of 14 (1991 views)
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This is my guess [In reply to] Can't Post

I think Thorin probably goes up to Ravenhill by himself, judging from his standing alone at the frozen waterfall (beautiful scene, IMO!), and the others hijack a Chariot to follow him. I think that would fit in pretty well, though we'd lose the scene with the four charging through the orcs on battle rams, and possibly Fili's awesome battle roll on Ravenhill. Yet another reason to buy both the TE and the EECool

Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association


PryftanAW
Bree

Apr 29 2015, 4:39pm

Post #6 of 14 (1959 views)
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But... [In reply to] Can't Post

In the theatrical cut we can see the destroyed chariot behinde Thorin and Dain, so the chariot drive must take place before that.
http://fotogalerie.herr-der-ringe-film.de/...ull.php?photo=302924
http://fotogalerie.herr-der-ringe-film.de/...ull.php?photo=302925


@CathrineB
The chariot is pulled by 6 goats
https://heirsofdurin.files.wordpress.com/...0p-mov_000063688.jpg


Shagrat
Gondor

Apr 29 2015, 4:50pm

Post #7 of 14 (1934 views)
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Great spot [In reply to] Can't Post

Maybe it will take place in the intervening stage then, between the Dwarves charging out and riding for the Ravenhill. I wonder what Thorin will be doing in the meantime? Armitage did mention in that interview that he had some scenes with Billy, suggesting there may be more interaction between them.

Of course, this will also explain the loose goats for those deeming it a plothole


(This post was edited by Shagrat on Apr 29 2015, 4:53pm)


CathrineB
Rohan


Apr 29 2015, 5:13pm

Post #8 of 14 (1897 views)
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Ah well [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

@CathrineB
The chariot is pulled by 6 goats
https://heirsofdurin.files.wordpress.com/...0p-mov_000063688.jpg


I'll be damned Laugh Well, maybe three get killed then or the more likely thing - I'm completely wrong Blush


Mooseboy018
Grey Havens


Apr 29 2015, 6:38pm

Post #9 of 14 (1844 views)
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possible alteration [In reply to] Can't Post

As far as changing some things from the TE, I hope they move the scene with Thorin watching as the dwarves search for the Arkenstone. I think that scene was originally supposed to be before Kili, Fili, Bofur, and Oin came to Erebor. Thorin randomly changes his costume from his kingly robes to his Laketown outfit and then back to his kingly robes.

I hope they add in the "everything I did, I did for them" scene (which has him in his Laketown outfit) and put the Arkenstone searching scene back in what I assume to be its proper place.

And then there's that reused shot of Radagast... That NEEDS to go.


lionoferebor
Rohan

Apr 29 2015, 7:24pm

Post #10 of 14 (1797 views)
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Concerning clothes [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
As far as changing some things from the TE, I hope they move the scene with Thorin watching as the dwarves search for the Arkenstone. I think that scene was originally supposed to be before Kili, Fili, Bofur, and Oin came to Erebor. Thorin randomly changes his costume from his kingly robes to his Laketown outfit and then back to his kingly robes.

I hope they add in the "everything I did, I did for them" scene (which has him in his Laketown outfit) and put the Arkenstone searching scene back in what I assume to be its proper place.


Someone else on another thread had also pointed out Thorin is wearing his Lake-town attire, as is Bilbo. I agree with you though this scene was probably meant to go before Fili, Kili, Bofur, and Oin's arrival.

Let's talk about Bilbo's clothes for a moment. Sometime after the Company arrives at Erebor the Dwarves all obtain new attire discarding their Lake-town rags. The Art and Design Chronicles Book says they found the clothing in wardrobes throughout Erebor that were untouched by Smaug's attack. Bilbo however doesn't seem to rid himself of the clothes given to him in Lake-town. Why is that? It can't be because Dwarven clothes would be to big for him, he's wearing clothes given to him by a Man. Any thoughts?


grimbeorn15
Rivendell

Apr 29 2015, 9:11pm

Post #11 of 14 (1722 views)
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Chronicles [In reply to] Can't Post

Although I can't quote word for word, I remember reading it and the Chronicles book specifically states that Thorin rides a Ram alone to RavenHill and Balin drives Dwalin, Kili and Fili on a cart (on the way to Ravehill they apparently fend off wargs).


Bofur01
Lorien


Apr 29 2015, 9:40pm

Post #12 of 14 (1705 views)
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The spell Gandlaf whispers is the one... [In reply to] Can't Post

He says to wake up Thorin in AUJ, so I think the whole sequence may be much different. And wasn't the chariot scene supposed to be the dwarves clearing Thorin's way to Ravenhill?


Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor


Apr 29 2015, 9:52pm

Post #13 of 14 (1694 views)
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The chariot [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
In the theatrical cut we can see the destroyed chariot behinde Thorin and Dain, so the chariot drive must take place before that.
http://fotogalerie.herr-der-ringe-film.de/...ull.php?photo=302924
http://fotogalerie.herr-der-ringe-film.de/...ull.php?photo=302925


@CathrineB
The chariot is pulled by 6 goats
https://heirsofdurin.files.wordpress.com/...0p-mov_000063688.jpg


I don't see how, since the scene with Dwalin & Co is on the frozen river. Maybe there's more than one chariot? Could explain the loose battleram. Don't know, guess we'll just have to wait & see.

Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association


omegalucas
Registered User

Apr 30 2015, 12:45pm

Post #14 of 14 (1488 views)
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Radagast's mirrored poo [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
And then there's that reused shot of Radagast... That NEEDS to go.


That and the mirrored Radagast shot on the eagle (seriously, look at it, the bird poo is on the left side of his face instead of the right like everywhere else) are the things that bother me the most.

 
 

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