|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
CathrineB
Rohan
Apr 22 2015, 8:12am
Post #2 of 29
(2120 views)
Shortcut
|
I quite enjoy CinemaSins and while I'm not as picky as they are about logic (though they make a looot of sense here) I do find myself agree with much of it. Like Legolas running up those falling stones made me angry. It's so idiotic.
Nothing wrong with Fili's death though. I was sure they would put a sin about supposing to care about this dwarf, but I consider it better that it's left out completely  The lovestory I agree with too. Awful.
Though nah I'm not this hateful of it
|
|
|
marary
Lorien
Apr 22 2015, 9:59am
Post #3 of 29
(2077 views)
Shortcut
|
Laughed out loud for the random Lake-towners giving convenient bits of information to Bard while he runs around the city. So true! And yes, he totally would have killed his kids with that carriage stunt.
And bro-hug in the middle of a battle.  Niiice.
SO spot on about the excessive last-minute saves.
I'm really sad they didn't give a sin for Thranduil decapitating 5 orcs at once. That was somewhere up near Legolas's stairs antics, right?
ETA: Still split on whether or not Bilbo's rock-throwing is a sin or not. On one hand, it looks ridiculous, OTT, and unlikely. On the other hand, Bilbo as a rock-throwing-champ is *literally* book canon. (Read the Mirkwood spider segment of the book if you doubt me!)
(This post was edited by marary on Apr 22 2015, 10:01am)
|
|
|
xxxyyy
Rohan
Apr 22 2015, 12:17pm
Post #4 of 29
(2009 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Legolas on the faling stones is like Legolas on the snow at Caradhras in FOTR
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
If it's Toliken giving us nonsense, everything is fine I guess...
That said, I love both scenes.
|
|
|
Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea
Apr 22 2015, 12:19pm
Post #5 of 29
(2005 views)
Shortcut
|
I wonder everytime I see DOS and BOTFA why he doesnt use the ring and the sword???
EVERYONE WOULD HAVE DONE THAT?
He is with Smaug and only uses at the end, he is in the middle of a huuuuge battle and he doesnt use them WHY?
He could havd taken down Azog alone
The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true
Survivor to the battle for the fifth trailer
Hobbit Cinema Marathon Hero
|
|
|
AshNazg
Gondor
Apr 22 2015, 12:26pm
Post #6 of 29
(2009 views)
Shortcut
|
|
"Absolutely NOTHING matters!!!"
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
That quote pretty much sums up PJ's approach to making the movie.
Got it on DVD yesterday to show my dad (big LotR fan). I'm starting to think this is worse than Star Wars Episode I. It's a movie that's actually kind of embarrassing to sit through, and for me it just gets worse with each viewing. 
It's kinda sad seeing my dad excitedly put the DVD on and watch his expression slowly drop as the film went on. At the end he said "What was the point in that second orc army? Couldn't they take on 5 dwarves?" I hadn't thought about that before. They just kinda stand there while Bolg and Azog die and then they get wiped out by eagles without attacking anything. They didn't seem to serve any function.
|
|
|
AshNazg
Gondor
Apr 22 2015, 12:38pm
Post #7 of 29
(2004 views)
Shortcut
|
1. Snow shoes allow people to walk on snow without sinking, by dispersing their weight over a wider surface area. (e.g. if you turn a knife on its side, it won't cut through butter as easily). We know that elves made all kinds of magical items and clothes, ropes & capes, so magical snow shoes is not really "physics defying".
2. There are certain native American techniques that allow people to walk on-top of snow without sinking. By moving quickly people can even walk across custard, and then when they stand still they sink.
3. The actual quote is more of a metaphor, compared to a physics defying stunt that magically saves his life at a convenient moment. "Frodo noticed as if for the first time, though he had long known it, that the Elf had no boots, but wore only light shoes, as he always did, and his feet made little imprint in the snow." I read that as no more literal than Gollum paddling his boat without making a ripple.
(This post was edited by AshNazg on Apr 22 2015, 12:49pm)
|
|
|
Bofur01
Lorien
Apr 22 2015, 12:55pm
Post #8 of 29
(1959 views)
Shortcut
|
|
The embarrassing thing is that...
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Legolas' stunt is actually possible, and doesn't defy gravity. Try pushing off a satellite in space, and you'll realise that that is possible, which is the same as what Legolas does in the Hobbit.
|
|
|
marary
Lorien
Apr 22 2015, 1:01pm
Post #9 of 29
(1946 views)
Shortcut
|
There was a pretty decent article from Wired recently that explained how Legolas's stunt was unlikely and physically impossible: http://www.wired.com/...s-not-apply-legolas/
Though I do like the idea of Legolas as the first elf astronaut. He'd be great at it. Can't you just picture him zipping around in that Gravity movie? I'd rather have him than Clooney.
Oh, and another gem: pointing out how ridiculous it was when Dwalin and Thorin took on 100 goblins by themselves. Heehee.
(This post was edited by marary on Apr 22 2015, 1:02pm)
|
|
|
AshNazg
Gondor
Apr 22 2015, 1:02pm
Post #10 of 29
(1944 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I'm pretty sure the rock stunt is impossible...
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Middle-earth's gravity is acting on Legolas and the rock at the same time. No matter how hard he pushes against the rock he's not going to reverse the direction of his fall only slow the descent at best.
(This post was edited by AshNazg on Apr 22 2015, 1:03pm)
|
|
|
QuackingTroll
Valinor
Apr 22 2015, 1:14pm
Post #11 of 29
(1936 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I don't think your satellite example works
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
A satellite, in orbit of the Earth, is in a constant state of falling, and so is the astronaut (just as Legolas and the rock are falling). When the astronaut pushes off of the satellite he will continue to orbit the earth in the same direction, just at a slower rate than the satellite, creating a distance between the two. What the astronaut cannot do (unless he's Legolas) is exert enough force on the satellite to change the direction of his orbit. That would require an immense amount of energy.
I remember this was one of the plot-holes in Gravity, they use excess landing fuel to change direction of a shuttle and get to another station, which is just not possible. You can't change the direction of gravity like that.
|
|
|
Bofur01
Lorien
Apr 22 2015, 1:28pm
Post #12 of 29
(1914 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Elves are super strong and near massless, so it's not impossible. //
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
|
|
|
QuackingTroll
Valinor
Apr 22 2015, 1:55pm
Post #13 of 29
(1900 views)
Shortcut
|
I sometimes forget that Legolas has near-zero mass and has more force in his legs than a space shuttle. I do wonder why he never used those legs to kick people into space or used his weightless abilities to simply float around like a helium balloon. Seems he didn't need the tower bridge at all when he could effectively fly.
|
|
|
Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Apr 22 2015, 1:55pm
Post #14 of 29
(1898 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Legolas running on falling rocks
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Someone suggested that if you watch this scene while listening to "Chariots of Fire" that it's much better, LOL!
Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association
|
|
|
Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Apr 22 2015, 2:01pm
Post #15 of 29
(1898 views)
Shortcut
|
I have to wonder if HE read the books - eagles showed up when they did because that's what happened in the book. Agree with him about two things, though: Martin Freeman and the ice fight between Thorin & Azog. Thorin stepping off the ice was genius, and it should have worked, but I guess that's not the way the story was written. OTOH, Azog wasn't even there, it was Bolg that killed Thorin. Sometimes too much really is too much, but despite these complaints I think it was a great movie overall. I can even forgive PJ for too much Alfrid.
Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association
|
|
|
Bofur01
Lorien
Apr 22 2015, 3:56pm
Post #16 of 29
(1816 views)
Shortcut
|
|
That said it was darn hard, and not physically impossible.... //
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
|
|
|
Smaug the iron
Gondor
Apr 22 2015, 4:05pm
Post #17 of 29
(1820 views)
Shortcut
|
Cinemasins are saying that the books donīt mean anything.
|
|
|
QuackingTroll
Valinor
Apr 22 2015, 4:09pm
Post #18 of 29
(1818 views)
Shortcut
|
The film shouldn't rely on the book to explain away problems. He's not really a whiner, he does this with every popular movie as a joke. Pretty sure he's not serious in the majority of them.
|
|
|
marary
Lorien
Apr 22 2015, 4:30pm
Post #19 of 29
(1787 views)
Shortcut
|
|
CinemaSins is not actually that mean spirited
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
They do this to tons of movies I love. Pointing out flaws and plotholes is half the fun! (Or maybe I'm just a bit twisted.)
(This post was edited by marary on Apr 22 2015, 4:35pm)
|
|
|
Avandel
Half-elven
Apr 22 2015, 4:34pm
Post #20 of 29
(1785 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Agree - IMO the guy was straining here
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Like saying that there's no evidence that Legolas in the films - I assume the films as it isn't clear from the vid - hasn't had a history w. Aragorn - when in the film at the council Legolas steps up and confronts Boromir - and even the way Aragorn answers him shows the two have a relationship.
Gandalf I would assume WAS concerned about the dragon sickness/madness, but there was no way to know if Thorin/Fili/Kili were susceptible, and Gandalf planned to be with the dwarves when the mountain was entered.
E.g. some of the stuff this guy pings on IMO isn't accurate, or forced snark. Other stuff has been discussed on TORn.
So for me this was fun, but not as good as some of the other "Sin" vids. LOL tho it did: 1) make me want to watch BOFA again and 2) once again thoroughly appreciate the completely stunning Durins and 3) think I really need to see that Thranduil orc beheading again and 4) did I mention appreciating the Durins?  
|
|
|
marary
Lorien
Apr 22 2015, 4:39pm
Post #21 of 29
(1776 views)
Shortcut
|
I thought it was very clear in FOTR that Legolas and Aragorn had a past history as well! Big fail on that sin. (Though to be fair, it was hard to understand Thranduil's motivation for the "strider" scene!)
once again thoroughly appreciate the completely stunning Durins
Exactly that.
(This post was edited by marary on Apr 22 2015, 4:43pm)
|
|
|
Goldeneye
Lorien
Apr 22 2015, 7:37pm
Post #22 of 29
(1685 views)
Shortcut
|
Hilarious and true, the internet has been having a field day with BOFA! I've thoroughly enjoyed HISHE, Honest Trailers and now CinemaSins poke holes in this film. So many gaping holes in logic that could have been easily avoided.
|
|
|
Milieuterrien
Rohan
Apr 22 2015, 10:25pm
Post #23 of 29
(1627 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Does anybody seriously think PJ wasn't aware of those sins ? He just PLAYS with them.
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
... and with the maturity of the fans of course.
Every people involved in the movie making know for sure that legions of youngsters would spend time on the net, analyzing each frame of the movie.
I've heard Evangeline Lilly stating that she was happy the movies were not to be taken 'too seriously'.
Don't forget that PJ is on the verge of filming some war that DID happen : the WWI, in which Kiwis and not Kilis were killed. Real war still bleed in memories of entire other countries. You can't mistake them for imaginary wars.
In the Hobbit PJ understood his mission was to make a fantasy movie about a fantasy war.
He didn't had to make it as gruesome as a real war is. Even Tolkien didn't. He wrote a story for children, so he flew over the gruesomeness of the war, he fled far from it.
Did we have to expect a 'realistic' war ? The death of each human, the death of each dwarf, the death of each elf ? Of course we did not.
So what we have instead is a spectacular delight, out of every frame. No real wounds (or so few), no real fear, no real suffering... Except for those among the audiences, and they were many, who happened to care about the only three characters that we knew by canon that they had to die : Kili, Fili and Thorin.
Interestingly, we can add to that list the Master of Laketown and his chief captain (and most probably Alfrid in the EE), who were especially built to meet their own death without provoking any grievance of any kind out of the audiences.
That is movie-making in its essence.
And what to say about this YouTube Dude who kept counting the 'sins' without appreciating a single bit of the fabulous scenery shown in each corner of each frame ?
Did anybody say 'nevrotic' ?
|
|
|
AshNazg
Gondor
Apr 22 2015, 11:12pm
Post #24 of 29
(1608 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Oh no, thirteen more dwarves! //
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
|
|
|
squiggle
Rivendell
Apr 23 2015, 4:52am
Post #25 of 29
(1537 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Legolas fighting stunts are part of his Elve Prince character
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
It's less to do 'physics' & more to do with story telling.
This is an adaption of the Hobbit, another version of 'what really happened' of the same story.
Apart from Legolas driving the huge Goblin with daggers in brain......eckkk ..........i've found Legolas character quite enjoyable in the Hobbit trilogy.
|
|
|
|
|
CinemaSins: Everything Wrong With The Hobbit: The Battle Of The Five Armies
1
