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AshNazg
Gondor
Apr 16 2015, 9:10pm
Post #1 of 37
(2195 views)
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Star Wars vs The Hobbit
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This is a fairly old video, but I don't think it was ever shared on these boards, and I find it quite interesting. I thought, with the release of the new Star Wars trailer, that now would be a good time to put it out there, just to see what kind of a conversation it can spark up.
*Language warning in the videos*
Star Wars I-III vs The Hobbit: https://youtu.be/75HkUdZbM20
Star Wars IV-VI vs The Lord of the Rings: https://youtu.be/D1cfImKXZAM
I'd love to post these on a Star Wars forum and compare the responses. But I think a lot of members are fans of both franchises, so it's still interesting to discuss.
(This post was edited by Ataahua on Apr 16 2015, 9:43pm)
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AshNazg
Gondor
Apr 16 2015, 9:12pm
Post #2 of 37
(2073 views)
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They don't compare Alfrid or Radagast to Jar Jar Binks
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Maybe that's a good thing? 
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Bombadil
Half-elven
Apr 16 2015, 9:28pm
Post #3 of 37
(2058 views)
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Sorry Thumbs DOWN to that dude..
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"forgettable Dwarves..?
www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"
(This post was edited by Bombadil on Apr 16 2015, 9:29pm)
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AshNazg
Gondor
Apr 16 2015, 9:40pm
Post #4 of 37
(2054 views)
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I think that's true, and I don't see it as a negative
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Other than Thorin, Kili and maybe Balin, for a general audience it's hard to remember all those dwarves and it's the same in the book. I don't see why that's seen as something that detracts from the movie? School of Rock wasn't criticized for having forgettable students. It's a film about a large group, we don't have to remember the names of every single one.
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Gandalf the Green
Rivendell
Apr 16 2015, 11:45pm
Post #5 of 37
(1972 views)
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Sure, you can cook up excuses to supposedly make up for all that, but the story was supposed to be about the dwarves. The dwarf company.
Instead, in BOTFA, Alfrid had gotten hold of more screentime than most of Thorin's company, Tauriel & Legolas had managed to steal plenty of screentime as well,
and by the end of it all, it was hard to even care about Kili, Fili and maybe even Thorin. Mostly Fili, that character's screentime was stolen by Tauriel,
and the supposed "character development" between Kili and Fili mostly consisted of Fili shouting "Kili!" "No!", a combination of the two, and then some more.
Character development seemed to be going just fine in AUJ, but by DOS, things just managed to get cluttered by having a bunch of extra characters added in and by BOTFA,
things somehow managed to get even worse, adding in dumb filler scenes featuring a bad comic relief character instead of some more character development for some of the other dwarves,
distracting the viewer from the main group of characters we're supposed to care about and who could've been far more memorable than they ended up being.
It was "their quest, and theirs alone", yet a bunch of filler characters came swooping in and got more character development than 70% of the characters the trilogy should actually be about.
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lionoferebor
Rohan
Apr 17 2015, 2:23am
Post #6 of 37
(1913 views)
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Other than Thorin, Kili and maybe Balin, for a general audience it's hard to remember all those dwarves and it's the same in the book.
This is not the first time I've read statements such as this on these message boards, and though I am not a member of the "general audience" (having read the book) I find it insulting as if I, the average human, supposedly does not have the intellect to recall thirteen or more faces. The problem - as Gandalf the Green points out - is the characters who should have been the focus were not the focus, not the average moviegoers presumed inability to distinguish one character from the next. According to the article in the link below the human brain can recall up to 10,000 faces. Not only that, it also states that studies show 90% of people can recall their classmates after not having seen them in 35 years. Compared to that, remembering thirteen Dwarven faces - none of which look the same by the way - with one year between each film should be a drop in the bucket for the general audience member.
http://www.theguardian.com/...sciencenews.research
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KingTurgon
Rohan
Apr 17 2015, 2:27am
Post #7 of 37
(1916 views)
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But it's Star Wars for me - I saw it first, plus I just like the idea of it a tiny bit more. ROTS is my favorite movie so that helps as well. For me it goes:
1. SW Prequels
2. LOTR
3. Hobbit
4. SW Originals
But I love all 4 (except for Empire, it was good but not great IMO).
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Mooseboy018
Grey Havens
Apr 17 2015, 5:32am
Post #8 of 37
(1845 views)
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I think there's something wrong with your list.
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Bombadil
Half-elven
Apr 17 2015, 11:20am
Post #9 of 37
(1740 views)
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Gandalf named each Dwarve in BagEND..
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Gandalf also, named all of them again in "Into the Frying Pan"
Later in the EE of DoS, he named them ALL, a Third time for Beorn.
As, well OFTEN, when Thorin is asking one to do something,
"Bofur, take the First watch." in Cave.
"Fili, don't be a fool."
How many times did Fili yell "Kili!"
As PJ pointed out early on... Each had a distinguishing "Silhouette"
so even at a distance, you could figure out who was who.
Bofur {The Only one wearing a Hat}
Bombur {The only one over-weight}
Dwalin {The Bald one}
etc.
ALSO, If you re-watch the Films, each calls each other by name often,
in incidental dialogue...
The Video Reviewer is underestimating, ordinary audiences?...
Bom's opinion only.
www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"
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arithmancer
Grey Havens
Apr 17 2015, 11:44am
Post #10 of 37
(1714 views)
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Considering Empire is called out...
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...as the one film of the twelve that is worthy of negative comment in that post, I would guess the list accurately reflects the poster's opinions. If not the "critical consensus", which tends to be that Empire is the best of the bunch. It's my fave, but then I was 11 when I saw it, and I had a huge crush on Han Solo. 
Personally I would put all of the Jackson films ahead of SW. Not that SW are bad - the originals were an integral part of my childhood, and I can remember what a revelation "SW IV" was when I saw it at the age of 7. But Middle Earth is far and away my favorite fictional world and Jackson's films are worthy explorations of that world, to me.
I'd probably rate them:
LotR
Hobbit
SW (original)
SW (prequels)
I am looking forward to see what they have come up with for the new films in the SW franchise!
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Elessar
Valinor
Apr 17 2015, 12:52pm
Post #11 of 37
(1677 views)
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but I don't really get into these as it turns into a measuring contest. You'll end up getting both sides saying fairly snarky things to the other and that isn't productive.
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Elessar
Valinor
Apr 17 2015, 1:00pm
Post #12 of 37
(1680 views)
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were fleshed out as much as they really needed to be. When you sit and compare them to the book they got far more love and better development than that. Honestly, there isn't much information to use to create backgrounds without making more stuff up, which in turn makes some folks get their knickers in a twist. Sure Alfrid got a bit more screen time than needed but I don't have an issue with Legolas/Tauriel's presence in BOFTA. In the end The Hobbit films are about three things Bilbo's journey/growth, Thorin's need to reclaim what is his, and the coming of Sauron back to Middle-earth. We got all of that and pretty well done, IMO.
(This post was edited by Elessar on Apr 17 2015, 1:14pm)
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marary
Lorien
Apr 17 2015, 1:07pm
Post #13 of 37
(1668 views)
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I'll even go as far as to argue that the complaints of "there weren't enough dwarves!"* come from the fact that they did SUCH a good job fleshing them out as lovable characters (more than in the book), that no matter what they did would leave you wanting more.
*Except in the case of Fili, who would have benefitted the films greatly by at least one character moment in BOFA.That's the only thing that went amiss when it comes to the dwarves.
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CathrineB
Rohan
Apr 17 2015, 1:08pm
Post #14 of 37
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Star Wars to me has never been anything impressive at all. Not even worthy of comparing to LotR or the Hobbit  But you know, I'm not a sci-fi fan. At all. I'm more of the fantasy type so it really just comes down to preferences.
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Bombadil
Half-elven
Apr 17 2015, 1:11pm
Post #15 of 37
(1658 views)
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ONE takes place in a distant, possible PAST...
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ONE takes place in a distant, Possible FUTURE?
SSOoo..."Where's the BEEF"?
Don't people have ROOM in their Imaginations
for BOTH?
www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"
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Elessar
Valinor
Apr 17 2015, 1:13pm
Post #17 of 37
(1654 views)
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Both are pretty darn fun. :)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Apr 17 2015, 1:42pm
Post #18 of 37
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"A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away."
Are you saying that Middle-earth is our future?
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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marary
Lorien
Apr 17 2015, 1:44pm
Post #19 of 37
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That Tolkien intended Middle Earth to be Earth's past... but anything's possible, right?
Come to think of it, no reason Arda can't be just another planet in a galaxy far far away, either.
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marary
Lorien
Apr 17 2015, 1:50pm
Post #20 of 37
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Because while it's classified as sci-fi, it's totally in the fantasy-genre down to the very last (mythic) trope. Star Wars is sort of like Middle Earth with lasers and spaceships. You've got heroes, and mercenaries, and powerful magic and evil overlords, and sage old "wizards".
I think LOTR made far superior sequels in the Hobbit than Star Wars managed. This is purely from a filmmaking perspective. To be fair, a lot of times, level of enjoyment doesn't quite match up to how "well-made" something is (I actually enjoyed Episode III quite a bit!). For effects, acting, storytelling, character progression, and even (dare I say it?) pacing, Hobbit wins over Episodes I-III.
Yes, both are fun. :) And I got pretty excited when the new teaser came out. Old Han! OMG.
Now, can we get Beorn and Chewbacca in a room together?
(This post was edited by marary on Apr 17 2015, 1:52pm)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Apr 17 2015, 1:52pm
Post #21 of 37
(1625 views)
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1. SW Prequels
2. LOTR
3. Hobbit
4. SW Originals
Not saying you're wrong (you are perfectly entitled to your opinion); but, I always felt that the SW prequels were inferior in almost every way, other than visual effects, to the originals. And a great many folk think that The Empire Strikes Back is the best film out of all six (even taking into consideration the "middle-film syndrome" where much is left unresolved).
There is plenty to find fault with in the original SW trilogy; however, it is still a terrific tribute to the space operas, newspaper comics, and movie serials of times past.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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Elessar
Valinor
Apr 17 2015, 1:52pm
Post #22 of 37
(1624 views)
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It is sci-fi but it is almost sci-fantasy.
Of the prequels I enjoy ROTS the most as well.
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dormouse
Half-elven
Apr 17 2015, 1:59pm
Post #23 of 37
(1619 views)
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I never understand the need to compare and rate things. Why not just like it all - or not, as you prefer!
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Apr 17 2015, 2:00pm
Post #24 of 37
(1616 views)
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Let's just hope that SyFy Channel never adapts Tolkien.
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That Tolkien intended Middle Earth to be Earth's past... but anything's possible, right? Come to think of it, no reason Arda can't be just another planet in a galaxy far far away, either.
Setting Middle-earth in the future sounds like something we might see in a SyFy Channel miniseries.
That said, Ralph Bakshi did something very similar in his animated film Wizards.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Apr 17 2015, 2:08pm)
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marary
Lorien
Apr 17 2015, 2:05pm
Post #25 of 37
(1613 views)
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Setting Middle-earth in the future sounds like something we might see in a SyFy Channel miniseries.
But there's something appealing about the future somehow morphing into a medievalesque fantasy world. :) But you're right, this would be a terrible thing to do to ME!
I grew up in the 90's, but Star Wars still carries a VERY nostalgic vibe for me. Something about the aesthetic, dialogue and mannerisms seems so very of it's time and decade. It's dated-- and in a good way. I'm wondering if LOTR/Hobbit will feel this way in 20 years.
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