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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Apr 17 2015, 2:23pm
Post #26 of 37
(989 views)
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Wow, this is a really tough call for me. I saw the first first Star Wars (Episode IV) 5 times in the theater when I was 17. It was the summer before my senior year, I had just gotten a driver's license and a summer job, so there's alot of "coming of age" emotions tied to that movie. Of all the Star Wars films, that one is still far and above my favorite. My least favorite would probably be VI, Return of the Jedi. I never warmed up to Yoda, and I HATED the Ewoks. And don't get me started on "Slave Girl Leia," after being such a bad-ass beotch in IV - total fail.
But then LoTR happened. I must have watched FoTR over 138 times the first year, I just couldn't get enough of Middle Earth. Interestingly enough, though, my fave movie of the LoTR series is The Two Towers, and I'm not sure why. I thought Theoden was a great leader, naturally I loved Eowen, and the scenery! All those gorgeous snow-capped mountains, and Helms Deep was so intense! TTT tied with SW IV in that I saw it in the theaters 5 times as well. I wanted to go a 6th time, but my hubby was so sick of it by then he refused.
And then the Hobbit movies came along. On first viewing of AUJ I didn't feel the same magic, but of course I bought the DVD, and have now probably seen it as many times as FoTR. Martin is absolutely PERFECT as Bilbo, and yes I admit I've got a super-sized crush on Thorin. If there is one area I will put Peter Jackson ahead of George Lucas, it would be casting. Ian McKellan IS Gandalf, and if they had recast the part I would never have seen the movie. Everyone nailed their part in Middle Earth; I can't say the same for the Star Wars prequels. I have to agree with the Movie Feuds guy, they didn't get a good Anakin at all. And I think PJ has them beat on set design as well, the attention to detail in Bree, Edoras and Dale were just amazing. Though he probably did cut more corners in the Hobbit movies and rely a bit too much on CGI, we still also got lots of beautiful on location scenery, which I will finally get to see early next year. I suppose it might again be one of those "life" things - back when LoTR came out my kids were in grade school and middle school. It was like, "yeah, it would be great to see New Zealand someday." But NOW the kids are grown, and that once-in-a-lifetime trip is a real probability! The Hobbit movies reminded me of just how much I wanted to go to Middle Earth, so they get high marks for that reason as well. I've seen DoS and Bot5A five times each in theaters, so they've tied with Star Wars IV; therefore my list would look something like this:
1. Star Wars IV (first first)
2. The Two Towers
3. Desolation of Smaug
4. Fellowship of the Ring
5. An Unexpected Journey
6. Battle of 5 Armies
7. Return of the King
8. Phantom Menace (mostly for the pod race)
9. Empire Strikes Back
10. Attack of the Clones
11. Revenge of the Sith
12. Return of the Jedi (for reasons stated above)
Crazy list, I know, but there you are.
Why yes, I DO look like Anna Friel!
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Elessar
Valinor
Apr 17 2015, 3:12pm
Post #27 of 37
(958 views)
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It's fun to rate things in the sense of fun. There are times and that it becomes like I said a measuring contest in the sense of snotty comparison. I view the two differently though.
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Avandel
Half-elven
Apr 17 2015, 3:53pm
Post #28 of 37
(951 views)
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*Bows* respectfully disagree...
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Re:
were fleshed out as much as they really needed to be. When you sit and compare them to the book they got far more love and better development than that. Honestly, there isn't much information to use to create backgrounds without making more stuff up...
But re the dwarves, that was the point, wasn't it? E.g. Peter Jackson "that's fine if it's a book, but in a movie, they're onscreen...they have to do something...." - or something like that, from the Appendices in talking about the development of the dwarf look and character. And while stuff may have been "made up" the dwarves, seems like a LOT of work - face, costumes, back stories - all of it was done with some reasonable basis - the family ties, the "royal" group, the "working class" group - one of the reasons IMO the idea that the 13 are indistinguishable to me is ludicrous (and just snark to be dismissed re the You Tube vid ).
Another point - why take such care in the choice of actors for the whole Company, auditions and so on (and the lack of IMO making effective use of actors like James Nesbitt, Ken Stott, Dean O'Gorman, John Callen etc. drives me to distraction when I think about it) and then pretty much, in the end, relegate the Company to extras that get to react once in a while?
but I don't have an issue with Legolas/Tauriel's presence in BOFTA
In the sense of IMO a narrative flow - especially in DOS - where we either see the dwarves interacting with each other or at least reaction shots, and working together (as when the weapons get stolen) and IMO all that bonding that went on in the dwarf boot camp shows up on screen - it feels to me that these "dwarf" actors are just COMFORTABLE with each other, as when Thorin chides Gloin - it's a small thing, but it feels natural.
So while I may or may not have had an issue with Legolas/Tauriel's PRESENCE in BOFTA - which is also "made up" especially Tauriel - I do feel badly about the dwarf interactions that might have been, v.s. this "jog" into focusing on these elves - or even Alfrid. I would have found it far more compelling to see the dwarves (played by superb actors) in discussion while they are under siege as Thorin spirals into madness - anything - an argument whether some want to leave, or Fili interacting with Thorin, or Ori being comforted by the the more worldly Nori, or the dwarves accepting they will all die in Erebor, probably.
Even more time in the armor room, or Fili and Kili looking around Erebor and having it sink in what their legacy actually is, as in theory they had never been there before.
But no. Instead at one point there's Tauriel stating the self-evident "they are swarming" (yep, that's what bats do, typically, so thanks for pointing that out..) and Legolas channeling Aragorn I guess and sending Bolg a peeved look, and some shoehorned-in family history that comes of out nowhere. IMO Alfrid could have been useful for someone to play against Bard, which he does, but it just goes on and on and as one critic pointed out, it wasn't funny. IMO some good stuff at the end, but re other threads some not so good. 
Re:
In the end The Hobbit films are about three things Bilbo's journey/growth, Thorin's need to reclaim what is his, and the coming of Sauron back to Middle-earth.
For me - the films were a lot of that, but other things I thought were important. The charm of 13 hairy little guys and a halfling - a Company.
The unlikely friendship between a bitter, complex, exiled king and a hobbit. The Durins, including Dain, and the family groups. Even Beorn for me was one of the most looked-forward to things in BOFA. A clash of kings (Thorin and Thranduil).
For me there was SOME of that, and IMO whatever Martin Freeman and Richard Armitage were paid it wasn't enough.
It is what it is, at this point. And for those that are content with BOFA - and it's hard to argue with the film's theater/financial success - I AM happy for those folks. IMO there IS so much good in BOFA; for me tho I wish I didn't view the film and unlike with AUJ and DOS, re BOFA I feel UNSATISFIED - like I am seeing a bunch of great vignettes with some sort of side Lifetime TV movie stuffed in. Tho part of that is the IMO too tight and rapid editing.
But, I bought a copy of the film, and I'll buy the EE - probably many will, around the world - and PJ & co. and possibly WB seem to love elves, so I think I won't be getting more dwarf time in the EE, either.
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QuackingTroll
Valinor
Apr 17 2015, 4:29pm
Post #29 of 37
(947 views)
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Did you know that the ewoks are hobbits?
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Half-human sized, hairy creatures that keep to themselves and love nature over machines. They live on the planet "Endor" which is elvish for Middle-earth.
George Lucas is a big Tolkien fan too. Both are fantastic franchises, I have no problem comparing them, there are a lot of similarities. LotR obviously wins for me, though. I do prefer the Star Wars soundtracks, though. 
(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Apr 17 2015, 4:29pm)
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Elessar
Valinor
Apr 17 2015, 4:34pm
Post #30 of 37
(933 views)
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But re the dwarves, that was the point, wasn't it? E.g. Peter Jackson "that's fine if it's a book, but in a movie, they're onscreen...they have to do something...." - or something like that, from the Appendices in talking about the development of the dwarf look and character. And while stuff may have been "made up" the dwarves, seems like a LOT of work - face, costumes, back stories - all of it was done with some reasonable basis - the family ties, the "royal" group, the "working class" group - one of the reasons IMO the idea that the 13 are indistinguishable to me is ludicrous (and just snark to be dismissed re the You Tube vid ).
Of course part of the point was to give them more detail than what was in the book. I was commenting more about the fact that to do more than they did would be even more made up stuff and we've seen for some that goes over like a lead balloon. lol I agree the work on the Dwarves and the acting done was really darn good.
Another point - why take such care in the choice of actors for the whole Company, auditions and so on (and the lack of IMO making effective use of actors like James Nesbitt, Ken Stott, Dean O'Gorman, John Callen etc. drives me to distraction when I think about it) and then pretty much, in the end, relegate the Company to extras that get to react once in a while?
Because even if they're not going to go super in-depth you want to make sure what you have is of the highest quality. That would be my reason anyways. Personally, I thought those actors you mentioned were used quite well. I'd take more but I don't walk away being upset with what I got either. The thing is really that's what the company is it isn't about them. They get to play in the sandbox and be used quite well but as I said the movie version is about (IMO) the three things I mentioned.
In the sense of IMO a narrative flow - especially in DOS - where we either see the dwarves interacting with each other or at least reaction shots, and working together (as when the weapons get stolen) and IMO all that bonding that went on in the dwarf boot camp shows up on screen - it feels to me that these "dwarf" actors are just COMFORTABLE with each other, as when Thorin chides Gloin - it's a small thing, but it feels natural.
I agree with you here totally.
So while I may or may not have had an issue with Legolas/Tauriel's PRESENCE in BOFTA - which is also "made up" especially Tauriel - I do feel badly about the dwarf interactions that might have been , v.s. this "jog" into focusing on these elves - or even Alfrid. I would have found it far more compelling to see the dwarves (played by superb actors) in discussion while they are under siege as Thorin spirals into madness - anything - an argument whether some want to leave, or Fili interacting with Thorin, or Ori being comforted by the the more worldly Nori, or the dwarves accepting they will all die in Erebor, probably.
I understand but for me I don't. I'm more likely to be upset we didn't get certain things at the end than maybe a moment where Nori and Ori have some convo. What we got for the most part with Legolas/Tauriel I found pretty interesting and helped flesh out what they wanted that story line to be. Like I said I understand I'm not upset over it either.
Even more time in the armor room, or Fili and Kili looking around Erebor and having it sink in what their legacy actually is, as in theory they had never been there before.
That would have been neat. Maybe if I sat down and took apart the movie I'd find a place to fit it in. I'd say lose some Alfrid stuff but for me it takes away the fun when I do that.
But no . Instead at one point there's Tauriel stating the self-evident "they are swarming" (yep, that's what bats do, typically, so thanks for pointing that out..) and Legolas channeling Aragorn I guess and sending Bolg a peeved look, and some shoehorned-in family history that comes of out nowhere. IMO Alfrid could have been useful for someone to play against Bard, which he does, but it just goes on and on and as one critic pointed out, it wasn't funny . IMO some good stuff at the end, but re other threads some not so good.
What shoehorned family history?
[quote[For me - the films were a lot of that, but other things I thought were important. The charm of 13 hairy little guys and a halfling - a Company.
The unlikely friendship between a bitter, complex, exiled king and a hobbit. The Durins, including Dain, and the family groups. Even Beorn for me was one of the most looked-forward to things in BOFA. A clash of kings (Thorin and Thranduil).
Those are all great things and I agree the lack of Beorn stinks.
For me there was SOME of that, and IMO whatever Martin Freeman and Richard Armitage were paid it wasn't enough.
I agree those two were darn good.
It is what it is, at this point . And for those that are content with BOFA - and it's hard to argue with the film's theater/financial success - I AM happy for those folks. IMO there IS so much good in BOFA; for me tho I wish I didn't view the film and unlike with AUJ and DOS, re BOFA I feel UNSATISFIED - like I am seeing a bunch of great vignettes with some sort of side Lifetime TV movie stuffed in. Tho part of that is the IMO too tight and rapid editing.
You're right at this point it is what it is. I do feel bad some walked out unhappy. I wish there was something I could do but I can't. So I go about trying to enjoy these films and share that with folks.
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QuackingTroll
Valinor
Apr 17 2015, 7:28pm
Post #31 of 37
(907 views)
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I think you need to rewatch...
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The Empire Strikes Back. That film is a masterpiece. How did it wind up BELOW The Phantom Menace?! It should be somewhere above Return of the King.
(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Apr 17 2015, 7:30pm)
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QuackingTroll
Valinor
Apr 17 2015, 8:10pm
Post #33 of 37
(881 views)
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Well, that's your (wrong) opinion...
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Just kidding.
But the correct answer is:
1.The Fellowship of the Ring
2. V The Empire Strikes Back
3. The Return of the King
4. The Two Towers
5. IV A New Hope
6. An Unexpected Journey
7. III Revenge of the Sith
8. VI Return of the Jedi
9. The Desolation of Smaug
10. The Battle of the Five Armies
11. II Attack of the Clones
12. I The Phantom Menace
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lionoferebor
Rohan
Apr 17 2015, 8:54pm
Post #34 of 37
(859 views)
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In the end The Hobbit films are about three things Bilbo's journey/growth, Thorin's need to reclaim what is his, and the coming of Sauron back to Middle-earth. We got all of that and pretty well done, IMO.
but I also agree with Avandel.
For me - the films were a lot of that, but other things I thought were important. The charm of 13 hairy little guys and a halfling - a Company.
The Dwarves are very important to the story...more than what they are given credit for, especially in the films.
How so? Well, let's consider for a moment the Dwarves never attempted to reclaim Erebor, then Gandalf would've not had a reason to give Bilbo "a little nudge out of the door", and our brave Hobbit would've never gone on his adventure that would eventually lead him to the Misty Mountains where he finds the Ring. And if Bilbo had not found the Ring, then Gollum probably would've still been in possession of it when Sauron imprisons him decades later, thus Sauron would've gained back the Ring and who knows what would've happened to Middle Earth.
All of this may have been if Bilbo had not found the Ring, because he never went on his adventure, because thirteen Dwarves never attempted to reclaim their homeland.
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor
Apr 17 2015, 10:32pm
Post #36 of 37
(844 views)
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You know, I've never made that connection before
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But it actually does make some sense, even if the execution of the Ewoks is by far the worst part of the original trilogy (and very much presages much of what went wrong in the prequel trilogy).
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
The Hall of Fire
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Jeffrodo
Bree
Apr 18 2015, 2:14pm
Post #37 of 37
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LOTR one series to rule them all
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For me...
1. LOTR
2. Star Wars 4-6
3. Hobbit
4. Star Wars 1-3
But I'd also put Indiana Jones 1-3 ahead of the SW prequels!
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