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Smaug the iron
Gondor
Mar 31 2015, 2:09pm
Post #1 of 30
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Thorin vs Boromir
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Which death scene of Thorin and Boromir did you like best.
For me it has to be Thorin. Only because It have more lines from the book. I still love Boromirīs death but Thorin is the winner.
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marary
Lorien
Mar 31 2015, 2:34pm
Post #2 of 30
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I'll take Boromir's last stand over Thorin's*... but Thorin's death and final words over Boromir's.
Because Thorin and Bilbo had a truly epic and complex friendship. It hits a lot harder than Boromir's final words to Aragorn.
*Thorin has a pretty awesome last stand too! But I'd say Boromir's is a bit more tense and heartwrenching. Absolutely outstanding editing. I chewed my fingernails off.
(This post was edited by marary on Mar 31 2015, 2:35pm)
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tsmith675
Gondor
Mar 31 2015, 3:16pm
Post #3 of 30
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Thorin's death is great but nothing can beat Boromir's death.
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Skaan
Lorien
Mar 31 2015, 3:41pm
Post #4 of 30
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Boromir's death never really did anything for me, to be honest (and neither did any of the other deaths in LOTR, except maybe Gandalf's 'death' in FotR).
But Thorin's death, to my own surprise, touched me a lot. Although i think it was mostly Bilbo's reactions and the aftermath of Thorin's death that caused me to feel this, rather than Thorin actually dying. That shot right after Thorin dies with the eagles' shadows flying over them and Bilbo weeping over his body was so touching. Beautifully somber music too. I loved that shot of him overlooking the battlefield below after he killed Azog aswell.
So i'd say Thorin's death is, by far, my favorite death scene out of all 6 movies.
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RosieLass
Valinor
Mar 31 2015, 5:19pm
Post #5 of 30
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Thorin's scene had more spoken lines that were close to the text, but both scenes perfectly captured the essence of the books. The performances by all involved were excellent as well.
If I have to pick one, then I'll go with Boromir because they didn't spoil it with an irrelevant and unnecessary cut-away.
"Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it."
--Joyce Meyer
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP
--Leonard Nimoy
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arithmancer
Grey Havens
Mar 31 2015, 5:22pm
Post #6 of 30
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But it is funny, I love the lines in both these particular scenes for their departures from the original. "My brother, my captain, my King" is quite posibly my favorite line from FotR movie, and it has a lot of good ones. And I love that Thorin's last words recall the conversation with the acorn in Bo5A, as well as Bilbo's speech about the importance of home in AUJ (which are both scenes that do not exist in the book).
Probably I would have to give it to Thorin if you are so mean as to fore me to make a choice, and the deciding factor would be Martin Freeman. I loved everything about his portrayal of Bilbo and his friendship with Thorin in the last Hobbit film.
My favorite sad scene though, hands down, is the Grey Havens in RotK. Technically no one exactly dies in it, but in RL only death would separate people from one another with the same finality...
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Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea
Mar 31 2015, 5:32pm
Post #7 of 30
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I can't believe we're even having this conversation. 
"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen
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Elessar
Valinor
Mar 31 2015, 6:48pm
Post #8 of 30
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Thorin's death is sad and it has emotion/makes me sad. Boromor's death makes me cry like a baby. lol
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shadowdog
Rohan
Mar 31 2015, 7:00pm
Post #9 of 30
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I found both very moving.
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emre43
Rohan
Mar 31 2015, 8:40pm
Post #10 of 30
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Thorin was just stupid to follow Azog's body. He was asking to be killed.
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Kim
Valinor
Mar 31 2015, 9:58pm
Post #11 of 30
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He wanted to make sure Azog was dead this time, unlike at Azanulbizar, when he just assumed it due to the injury.
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Kim
Valinor
Mar 31 2015, 10:01pm
Post #12 of 30
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Boromir's death didn't really affect me. Thorin's was the hardest of any M-e death for me. 
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AshNazg
Gondor
Apr 1 2015, 12:01am
Post #13 of 30
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Can you imagine if Boromir's madness was handled like Thorin's?
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All weird angles and slow motion talking. "If you wooulllddd buuuttt leeeennnnddd meeee theee rinnngggggg" *extreme close-up evil face*
The thing that makes Boromir's passing so dramatic (other than the complexity of the character) is the realism in his death. Boromir is shot many times and continues to fight to keep the hobbits alive. It's a noble, brave and believable death. Thorin, on the other hand, is stabbed in the foot by a physics-defying CGI orc and then stuck in a weird blade lock that for some reason means he needs to get stabbed by the orc's ridiculous sword arm in order to deliver a final lucky blow. How am I supposed to identify with that? I can barely understand it.
On top of this PJ made me care more about Boromir in half a film than he did about Thorin in three over-extended ones. I understand Boromir's fall into madness and his realisation and regret, whereas Thorin's weird dragon sickness thing just confuses me and makes me cringe. The result of this means that when he finally dies, I find it harder to empathise. IMO it's only Bilbo that I feel for in the scene.
(This post was edited by AshNazg on Apr 1 2015, 12:04am)
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lionoferebor
Rohan
Apr 1 2015, 1:01am
Post #14 of 30
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He wanted to make sure Azog was dead this time, unlike at Azanulbizar, when he just assumed it due to the injury.
I think Thorin realized his mistake in not killing Azog when he had the chance, and he was not going to make that same mistake again.
And for the record, both Thorin's and Borimir's deaths were great, but if I had to choose one it would be Boromir
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Old Toby
Grey Havens
Apr 1 2015, 4:44am
Post #15 of 30
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While Boromir's death scene was touching, for me it was just a moment amongst others that touched me equally, such as the scene after Gandalf's fall in Moria. But Thorin's death scene was the best for me in all the films, both the Hobbit and LOTR, thanks to both RA and MF.
"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)
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Elizabeth
Half-elven
Apr 1 2015, 7:15am
Post #16 of 30
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What's so remarkable about Boromir's death is that Jackson achieved a triumph in making us really understand and care about a character who, in the book, is an arrogant blow-hard.
Conversely, Jackson's Thorin, who might have had an arc from sympathetic dispossessed King to arrogant greed pig to noble dying King, went back and forth so many times with so little script foundation, that dying after a protracted battle staged more for spectacle than emotional connection, seemed remarkably uninvolving.
(This post was edited by Elizabeth on Apr 1 2015, 7:15am)
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Roheryn1
The Shire
Apr 1 2015, 10:46am
Post #17 of 30
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What's so remarkable about Boromir's death is that Jackson achieved a triumph in making us really understand and care about a character who, in the book, is an arrogant blow-hard.
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Totally agree with this but....Might I suggest Jackson et al might have written the script that way, but it was Sean Bean who truly invested it with weight, doubt and ultimate nobility?
I never liked or trusted book Boromir, but when he grabbed Frodo as Gandalf fell ...well, I changed my mind.
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Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea
Apr 1 2015, 11:01am
Post #18 of 30
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...that I was much more sympathetic to book Boromir than most readers precisely because I pictured him as Sean Bean while reading (I read the books in the year before the release of The Fellowship of the Ring, and the first trailer and promotional material were already out in the open). I was already a big fan of his from his role in Goldeneye, so I think that helped me in feeling sympathy for the character.
That said, it was nothing compared to what Bean's performance (and the script) ultimately made me feel in the film itself. 
"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen
(This post was edited by Aragorn the Elfstone on Apr 1 2015, 11:02am)
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ElendilTheShort
Gondor
Apr 1 2015, 5:02pm
Post #19 of 30
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boromir....so misunderstood by many readers
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he is the person on more than one occasion in the books that voices concern for, or acts to ensure the well being of the weakest members of the fellowship. His only fall is caused by the ring, which he overcomes.....a point many seem to miss or ignore, and his final battle is epic. He is so great and fearsome in the books that the orcs are afraid to engage him and choose the tactic of shooting him from a distance. The uruk hai even call him the big warrior/great warrior iirc when they have captured merry and pippin. His final stand is BY FAR FOR ME the one thing in tolkiens writing that the film makers added to that actually enhanced the film version.
Like viggo with aragorn, sean bean was not even close to fitting the physical description of his character from the book, but seans prowess at acting smashed his portrayal of boromir out of the park.
(This post was edited by ElendilTheShort on Apr 1 2015, 5:06pm)
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elf-lady
Rivendell
Apr 1 2015, 5:58pm
Post #20 of 30
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Couldn't agree more if I tried!
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This plus his death brought tears to my eyes. Even now, over 10 years later, just thinking about that scene makes me tear up. "I would have followed you my brother, my captain, my king." *cries*
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Milieuterrien
Rohan
Apr 1 2015, 8:54pm
Post #22 of 30
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that in the book, Thorin is an elder character, white-haired, and that his age tends ton end his arc appropriately.
Boromir seems more a loss because he was younger, but he was on the verge of losing his ground and turning somewhat like his father Denethor.
So when you see Boromir dying, you can't help but imagine him living and turning dark. So it's kinda sort of fortune for him to avoid that fate.
Had Thorin lived, he would have ruled Erebor. But in the book, he is shown as a somewhat stubborn leader, not the kind you enjoy identify with. Richard Armitage (and PJ) have turned him as a 3-quarter-heroic and 1-quarter failed character, and also a much younger one, so his death is much more saddening than in the book : had he lived, he would still have make some wrong and stubborn moves as a king, but also some more enjoyable ones. That chance will not be given to him, and that is saddening.
I found Sean Beam was great dying, but Viggo Mortensen even more truly great mourning him. At that moment he opens his heart so deeply that he succeeds in making SB's words convincing. Bilbo's mourning is also touching because he's more naive, more childish : he discovers the loss on the way (where Aragorn already knew all about it, being much more mature than Bilbo)
Honestly I found his farewell to the other Dwarves even more touching, because at this moment they shared a common mourning and a departure : every one of them will have to live with the loss, which is life in all its cruelty.
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marary
Lorien
Apr 2 2015, 5:57am
Post #23 of 30
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So when you see Boromir dying, you can't help but imagine him living and turning dark. So it's kinda sort of fortune for him to avoid that fate.
I know I'm not the first person to say it, but I found it a bit frustrating that both Boromir and Thorin redeem themselves from their corruption for one final, heroic moment... and then die. Perhaps fortunate... but I'd rather use the words too easy.
Part of me wants to see Thorin have to actually pick up the pieces and truly move on from his mistakes and greed! He dies, but he has left a bit of a mess in his wake. He doesn't actually have to deal with picking up the peices-- all he gets to do is deliver a lovely apology to Bilbo.
Their deaths totally negate having to go the extra mile with overcoming corruption, and continuing to resist it as life continues.
One of the reasons I didn't mind the changes to Faramir's story in the film. In the film, he is just as tempted by the ring as Boromir... but he has pulls himself out of corruption, does the right thing, and gets to continue fighting, even through his demons and misgivings.
Faramir gets to struggle with temptation, make a bit of a mess... but then he gets to live and struggle with life. If the ring was tempting because it seemed like an easy way to end the war, Faramir certainly has to struggle by giving that up and fighting almost to his death in "the hard way". And by not winning son-brownie points by not claiming the ring!
ETA: Thorin and Boromir are both arguably more sympathetic in the films due to some very good acting... am I the only one who adored both characters in the book? Yes. I adore book Thorin! I said it!
(This post was edited by marary on Apr 2 2015, 6:01am)
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ElendilTheShort
Gondor
Apr 2 2015, 8:06am
Post #24 of 30
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then by that ratioale you would have to say frodo failed his mission. The ring overtook frodos will and the inevitable happened to him as it would with anyone due to the rings design......he was unable to destroy it. Boromir was temporarily overcome and succumbed to the ring but overcame this and redeemed himself defending merry and pippin. If he stayed alive, although he may have continued to be tempted he would have then realised the temptations were just lies of the ring, just as Isildur did an age ago, which was very unlike his portrayal in the movie, and why he was going to seek council from elrond at the time of his death iirc from what was written in Unfinished Tales.
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