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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Ok dumb question....what are the five armies exactly?

Jeffrodo
Bree


Mar 31 2015, 11:19pm

Post #1 of 5 (764 views)
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Ok dumb question....what are the five armies exactly? Can't Post

I've seen the movie four times....but what are the five armies?

Dwarves
Elves
Humans
Orcs
And.....??
Bats? Goblins? Eagles? More orcs?

Help! Dumb question but I can't figure it out.


AshNazg
Gondor


Mar 31 2015, 11:26pm

Post #2 of 5 (748 views)
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Three official and correct answers... [In reply to] Can't Post

Tolkien's answer:
Dwarves
Men
Elves
Orcs
Wargs

Warner Bros' answer:
Dwarves
Men
Elves
Orcs
Eagles

Peter Jackson's answer:
Dwarves
Men
Elves
Dol Guldur orcs (Azog)
Gundabad orcs (Bolg)

I prefer PJ's answer because the eagles aren't an army. They don't have any motivation to take Erebor or the treasure and they're not following a leader, they're just a natural force. Whereas Bolg and Azog's armies are separate entities with different motivations. One is specifically ordered to capture Erebor for Sauron and the other is motivated to end the line of Durin. Smile There are also the goblins, but apparently they work for both armies.


(This post was edited by AshNazg on Mar 31 2015, 11:37pm)


Mooseboy018
Grey Havens


Apr 1 2015, 12:52am

Post #3 of 5 (696 views)
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Definitely not a dumb question. [In reply to] Can't Post

The movie didn't do a very good job of making it clear, and the fact that Warner Bros isn't even consistent with PJ's decision doesn't make things any easier. Maybe they were thinking of the animated movie. That one had the eagles as the fifth army.


Milieuterrien
Rohan

Apr 1 2015, 10:42am

Post #4 of 5 (603 views)
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Jackson's option is interesting [In reply to] Can't Post

... For we understand that Azog counted on Smaug's support to crunch down elves primarily and men subsequently, or vice versa.

Smaug being killed, Azog needed another army in emergency, but that second one arrived too late, meeting it's fate, aka the eagles and Beorn, before bringing any help to Azog's one.

Without Smaug's help, Azog's army was too weak by itself to triumph over elves + dwarves + men altogether and already armed (except the men). So as Gandalf stated, the dwarves entering Erebor have indeed been the decisive factor, getting Smaug out of his lair too soon for the evil's pride.

Incidentally, Orcs clearly needed Smaug to crunch the Elves inside their lair like the Dragon did with Dwarves of Erebor : Elves would have been fleeing out of the dragon fire only to fall into orc's trap outside.

Whargs as an army didn't match well, since Tolkien himself didn't give them any strategic move of their own during all his telling of the main battle : he mostly forgot the whargs as well as he almost forgot Thorin's dwarves. Judging by the glimpse given by the trailer, The übercanines act mainly as mounts for Azog's troops, and sometimes as agressive scouts when unmounted (first met twice in AUJ, ending by their attack on the chariot in BOTFA)

Eagles are no army. First, because they are never mentioned as one by Tolkien, second because if they would, bats would also be counted as an army (given their number). That would have only ended with a "Battle of the Seven armies" title. By now, the bats are simply counted as a part of Bolg's Army, as well as whargs are counted as a part of Azog's Army.


(This post was edited by Milieuterrien on Apr 1 2015, 10:48am)


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Apr 1 2015, 7:41pm

Post #5 of 5 (508 views)
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Everyone's wrong. The fifth army is... [In reply to] Can't Post

The army of battle rams.


(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Apr 1 2015, 7:41pm)

 
 

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