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Milieuterrien
Rohan
Apr 2 2015, 10:22pm
Post #26 of 30
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There's no dragon sickness in the book
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P Jackson probably felt a necessity to add it because he feared that too few people would empathize with a character too distant from heroism or even fair attitude. In the book Thorin is pretty consistent with what he had shown before when he turns angry against Bilbo about the Arkenstone.
I believe I understand the meaning of the shift, in order to grip main audiences and get them on their feet again afterwards mourning a hero, but Tolkien's take wasn't so ambivalent : all the way his dwarves, Thorin included, did the wrong choices and needed Bilbo to fix things. Jackson's Thorin is much more complex, elaborate and even sensitive. He evaluates situations, he leads but also sometimes lets others lead, and is able to stand backwards.
Arriving in Bag End, Tolkien's Thorin falls among the other dwarves when Bilbo opens the door, while Jackson's Thorin arrives alone and proud. In Rivendell, Jackson's Thorin decides leaving abruptly, he shows himself late when confronting the Goblin King while Tolkien's Thorin projects himself first, as he does when confronting the Elves.
That more complex and subtle Jackson's Thorin couldn't be naturally stubborn about the Arkenstone, so PJ had to add the 'dragon sickness' stuff to explain his attitude. Tolkien's Thorin's stubborness was straight all the way, including the Arkenstone : no inflexion for him.
That's why I accustomed myself to wait for a Thorin bursting in anger when he would discovered Bilbo's treason, and I first was a bit disappointed to discover a slow-bursting Thorin. Afterwards I have to admit that this slow burst is coherent with the re-shaped Thorin.
Does that mean that I prefer it to the original ? I couldn't tell it. More so, I could tell that i like having two Thorins for the price of one. Each adds to litterature as an art and to adaptation as an art. Through Jackson, Thorin's dragon sickness is very cleverly handled : he deviates from the right way by dragon's possession, not by pure stubbornness, and RA's acting shows that he's torn inside.
I suppose that few would spontaneously adore Tolkien's Thorin, and much larger audiences would spontaneously adore Jackson's Thorin.
The question is: would those who did adore Tolkien's Thorin adore Jackson's Thorin more ?
PS - I have to confess that the effect was a little bit depleted for me, because I couldn't help but compare Armitage Thorin to Kabir Bedi's Sandokan/'the Tiger of Malaysia' (a long forgotten but once popular mini-series shot many years ago - maybe remembered by Peter Jackson when he casted Armitage and chose his look). So, for me, Armitage's Thorin was mostly split between a Tolkien's classic and a hyper-torrid Classic, which drove me a little bit too much into the movie-making, that is, off the movie itself.
(This post was edited by Milieuterrien on Apr 2 2015, 10:24pm)
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marary
Lorien
Apr 2 2015, 10:39pm
Post #27 of 30
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Does that mean that I prefer it to the original ? I couldn't tell it. More so, I could tell that i like having two Thorins for the price of one.
THIS. The best defense of adaptations I have ever read.
I quite like both Thorins in all of their deviations. Each Thorin gives us a worthy story of literary merit. (I also like having my two Faramirs, in fact! The one who captures Frodo and the one who doesn't. They're both awesome-sauce and I like both stories.)
(This post was edited by marary on Apr 2 2015, 10:45pm)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Apr 3 2015, 12:44am
Post #28 of 30
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There's no dragon sickness in the book P Jackson probably felt a necessity to add it because he feared that too few people would empathize with a character too distant from heroism or even fair attitude. In the book Thorin is pretty consistent with what he had shown before when he turns angry against Bilbo about the Arkenstone.
We know that this is not entirely true. Tolkien coined the term dragon-sickness in The Hobbit. The Master of Lake-town falls victim to it and it can be argued that Thorin's obstinance was at least partially fueled by dragon-sickness in addition for his raw desire for the Arkenstone.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea
Apr 3 2015, 1:21am
Post #29 of 30
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One of the most agressive examples of the "retelling" aspect of the films...
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...is the change to the characters of the dwarves (Thorin most of all, Balin least of all). PJ's dwarves are much more heroic. The dwarves of Tolkien's The Hobbit are far more greedy and selfish. This creates a most fundamental change between the two versions of the story, because in Tolkien's tale, Bilbo is the hero of the story - whereas, in the films, he shares that position with many of the dwarves (as well as Bard and others).
As one who loves the book dearly, this sort of rankles me - and, indeed, does the rare thing of bringing out a bit of the purist inside of me (yes, he does exist  ).
On the other hand, as a piece of cinema, I think it works quite well. But, I do think it illustrates that PJ is more of a fan of The Lord of the Rings than The Hobbit (and thereby tried to fit the latter into the storytelling style of the former).
"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen
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GhostofMacbeth
Bree
Apr 4 2015, 2:48am
Post #30 of 30
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To me, I think the death of Boromir was better. It captured what I read almost perfectly. To me the death of Thorin was tainted by so much of the lead up. I still think the fight with Bolg diluted the fight with Azog and the both brought about a number of the eye roll moments from the film.
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