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Arandir
Gondor
Mar 30 2015, 3:54pm
Post #1 of 34
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Bilbo’s Farewell to Thorin - Poignant or Funny?
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As someone who sees Thorin and Bilbo’s farewell scene as an emotional moment, I can also understand some people’s giggles (in the cinema) when Bilbo moaned in grief.
On one aspect, it’s a testament to Martin Freeman’s acting skills; capturing the intensity of grief through raw emotions: resulting in an innocent, frail and long-winded cry of despair.
On the other, it is an unusual cry: at least, different from what we’re used to seeing/hearing in films. It may be more realistic, but I’m intrigued by the decision to including this particular take - when it could risk alienating an audience and turn serious reaction into an inappropriate moment.
I confess, my first reaction was sadness and compassion, but I couldn’t help shake off that fragment of a thought in my mind that told me it felt a little bit out of place.
Multiple viewings later, that feeling still exists.
What were/are other’s reactions to this scene?
'A Tolkienist's Perspective' Blog
Why we Love 'Sherlock'
'How Peter Jackson inches closer to making 'The Silmarillion'
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arithmancer
Grey Havens
Mar 30 2015, 4:15pm
Post #2 of 34
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It has never even crossed my mind that this scene is anything other than brilliantly acted, especially by Freeman. For me, it falls short of utter perfection only in staying with Freeman and Armitage in close up, just a little bit too briefly before moving to the overhead shot of them from a greater distance. And then cuts to Tauriel mourning over Kili a bit too quickly.
Though I can see that these choices are a matter of taste, and also perhaps of judging the typical audience members' tolerance for scenes of unmitigated sadness. (Mine may be on the high side.  )
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Lindele
Gondor
Mar 30 2015, 4:38pm
Post #3 of 34
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You've answered your own question.
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If someone giggles during a moment like this it is clear that they are uncomfortable with a display of emotion at that depth or level of realism and are compensating by making it funny.
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AshNazg
Gondor
Mar 30 2015, 4:46pm
Post #4 of 34
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I think that it is intentionally funny, but not out of place...
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I laughed out loud in the cinema. It reminds me a lot of Bilbo in the books, making odd squeaks and noises - he's similar to a mouse, really.
While it does bring up a little giggle, it doesn't turn the sad moment into a moment of comedy, it just creates a bit of contrast in the emotion of the scene which I think is fine. We're not laughing at Thorin's death, nor at Bilbo's sadness, but it's just a laugh of comfort in Bilbo's character and the innocent way that he handles such distressing and emotional situations.
If a more serious character, say Eowyn, made an amusing cry it would be different, and wouldn't work. But Bilbo is supposed to be a bit quirky and feel out of place in these situations, and every-time we're reminded of that it's naturally funny.
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Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea
Mar 30 2015, 4:49pm
Post #5 of 34
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Audience giggling is common...
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...during emotional moments on screen, regardless of the movie. I've experienced this so many times (particularly with younger, immature crowds) that I tend to prefer home viewings more as a result.
In any case, everything about that scene is sublime.
"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen
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Loresilme
Valinor
Mar 30 2015, 5:00pm
Post #6 of 34
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His weeping and the small moan felt utterly authentic, and so moving. Like you stated also, I just wish the scene - that moment - had gone on perhaps two seconds longer. I wanted to spend a few more seconds there with Bilbo, grieving over Thorin.
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skyofcoffeebeans
Rohan
Mar 30 2015, 5:26pm
Post #9 of 34
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I don't think it's out of place
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The scene makes it clear that Freeman understands death, understands grief-- those cries can be simultaneously poignant and a bit amusing; the shot where the cry occurs even adds to this existential, even Vonnegut-esque humor, removing us from BIlbo's immediate despair while still reminding us of the fruitlessness of war. The same cries are also utterly human and authentic. Jackson makes it clear that he understands Tolkien with this. It was the first time since Boromir's death that I felt that combination of empathy and despair.
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dormouse
Half-elven
Mar 30 2015, 5:49pm
Post #10 of 34
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Personally I didn't hear anyone giggle or laugh....
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...though I'm sure it does happen. But for a reason I think you need to look at the personality, the level of maturity, and the circumstances of the gigglers, not at the scene. Odds on it's someone who has gone to the cinema with a group of friends and is more interested in what their friends are thinking than they are in immersing themselves in the story. Maybe they're embarassed by the raw emotion in that scene. Maybe they want to show that they're too cynical and streetwise to take hobbits and dwarves seriously. Maybe they don't take anything seriously. You'd have to know the person who was giggling before you could be sure that it was actually the scene that produced the reaction and not the attitude of the viewer.
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Mar 30 2015, 6:02pm
Post #11 of 34
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when people went quiet in the screenings I went to. People (including me) laughed in the first part of the double-dialogue scene but went quiet as it went on, with "I hate you" said to utter silence. Great scene.
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
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Kim
Valinor
Mar 30 2015, 6:36pm
Post #12 of 34
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I thought it was utterly heartbreaking and an absolutely real, perfect reaction to what just happened. I didn't see anything funny about it. 
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Elessar
Valinor
Mar 30 2015, 6:58pm
Post #13 of 34
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I've lost count how many times people react I think because they'd rather laugh than let the emotion get to them. I love going the theater but moments like this are built for home.
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Mar 30 2015, 7:00pm
Post #14 of 34
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I doubt it was intentionally funny
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I certainly didn't see it that way, but yes it was different. I've read (and heard him say in interviews) that Martin never does the same thing twice, so I can only guess that he was trying a different way to evoke despair. Perhaps PJ used that take BECAUSE it's not what we're used to seeing or hearing in films. I also don't share that fragment of a thought that says it's out of place, but that's just me. I don't think people are wrong if they do giggle, but I'd wonder what they find so funny about it. PJ made a few other questionable decisions that risked (and succeeded in) alienating his audience; compared to cutting the funeral scene this one doesn't even register with me.
Why yes, I DO look like Anna Friel!
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Miss-Merriweather
Bree
Mar 30 2015, 8:06pm
Post #15 of 34
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Ahem, funny - ? No, really not.
In fact "the mere thought hadn't even begun to speculate about the merest possibility of crossing my mind."
(Douglas Adams)
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Mooseboy018
Grey Havens
Mar 30 2015, 8:39pm
Post #16 of 34
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The only times I experienced giggling in these movies when a scene wasn't really supposed to be funny was during the glowing Tauriel scene and when Azog was slipping on the ice.
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RosieLass
Valinor
Mar 30 2015, 8:46pm
Post #17 of 34
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I don't remember Bilbo moaning in grief.
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I assume this is about Thorin's death scene, correct?
I thought the scene was very well done, and it's the one and only time in the film that I felt actually emotional. But they spoiled the chance of any tears by cutting away way too quickly. And worse yet, cutting away to Tauriel, fer crying out loud...
"Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it."
--Joyce Meyer
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP
--Leonard Nimoy
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Ilmatar
Rohan
Mar 30 2015, 10:18pm
Post #18 of 34
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It never crossed my mind that there could be anything amusing in Bilbo's initial choke and the keening (moaning?) that followed. It was completely realistic and utterly heartbreaking, and goes to show Freeman's indeed sublime skill as an actor.
Out of place - no, intentionally funny - no.
The OP's post makes me profoundly grateful for the audiences I saw this with. I can't watch this without tearing up and as far as I could tell it was the same for the rest of the audiences I saw it with - as well as being utterly silent through the rest of the film.
I could have written this - gratitude for a mature audience (four viewings), tearing up, silence in the audience until the end. In one viewing some one gave a brief giggle when Thorin exhaled his last breath, but no one laughed at Bilbo.
I agree with many who have said that possibly some viewers were embarrassed of the raw emotion and didn't know how to handle it, so laughed to cover their embarrassment and/or tried to distance themselves from the feeling. It may also have something to do with whether or not the viewer has ever lost a loved one in real life and how well they could identify with sudden and painful loss. The harrowing anguish is in that sound.
(This post was edited by Ilmatar on Mar 30 2015, 10:19pm)
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Elarie
Grey Havens
Mar 30 2015, 11:30pm
Post #19 of 34
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I thought it was incredibly sad and emotional
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It never occurred to me that anyone would think it was funny, and I never heard anyone laugh or giggle at any of the shows I went to. Maybe, like some of the other posters here have said, some people were just uncomfortable with the emotion.
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Gold is the strife of kinsmen,
and fire of the flood-tide,
and the path of the serpent.
(Old Icelandic Fe rune poem)
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Roheryn1
The Shire
Mar 31 2015, 1:36am
Post #20 of 34
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I thoughtt Bilbo's faint keening heart-crackingly sad and i desperately wanted to comfort him. The cut away was far too soon. Just a few more seconds...., please ??
If you've seen the last two minutes of The Reichenbach Falls in season 2 of Sherlock you'll know how well Martin Freeman can convey heartbreak !
The thought of it being funny never occured to me.
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Old Toby
Grey Havens
Mar 31 2015, 7:25am
Post #21 of 34
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In all the times I have watched the film in theaters
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which is about twelve times, I never once heard anyone laugh at this scene. This was also one of my favorite moments in all three films, btw. I thought it was brilliantly acted by both Armitage and Freeman, and I thought how Freeman played the weeping scene was both in keeping with the emotion of the moment and absolutely heartrending in its understatement. Like other posters, I think any laughter at such a tragic scene might come from people who are uncomfortable with such emotional display, particularly by a man (well, in this case, a hobbit).
"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)
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CathrineB
Rohan
Mar 31 2015, 8:32am
Post #22 of 34
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I had to think of what moment you were talking about because I couldn't think of any of it being considered funny. It's the little pitiful whine Bilbo let's out yes? I find it heartbreaking. I absolutely love it. On both times I saw the movie in theater people were either quiet or there were a few 'sympathetic sighs' that was undoubtedly not laughter. It was undoubtedly sympathy from the audience.
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Arannir
Valinor
Mar 31 2015, 12:13pm
Post #23 of 34
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... of Bilbo's character (that often borderlines funny in un-funny moments) and a sad moment.
A lot of people laughed at my screenings and I am sure not because they couldn't handle the sudden sadness.
Especially when he points to the Eagles (though that might also come from many people being annyoed that they saved the day once again and Bilbo refers to them as if they could save this situation as well... it is quite ironic, actually).
But I thought that ambiguity was perfect... unfortunately totally cancelled off by the scene that follows. 
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor
Mar 31 2015, 12:37pm
Post #24 of 34
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It was complemented and enhanced by the scene that followed it.
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
The Hall of Fire
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BlackFox
Half-elven
Mar 31 2015, 1:30pm
Post #25 of 34
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But which, sadly, is not a very popular opinion, it seems.
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, or whispering and slurping their yogurt
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