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squire
Half-elven
Mar 30 2015, 1:12am
Post #1 of 6
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**The unofficial Bored of the Rings discussion** Ch. VIII, pt. 5. - "The best years of my life I gave you!" she raged, her sharp red fingernails reaching out for the boggies.
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Last week (not really), we had left our heroes in this ominous situation:
A pungent smell of old pastrami and rancid gherkins floated out of the cave, and from deep within some hidden chamber came the sinister click of knitting needles.
Frito and Spam walked warily into the tunnel, and Goddam shuffled after them, a rare smile playing across his face.
At which point the book took a massive jump into more backstory than we’ve seen since the prologue: we suffered through the extended and sordid tale of the troll-maiden Schlob’s starry-eyed marriage with a “handsome young witch-king”, Sorhed, and their growing estrangement over the millennia. By the end she was left, bloated with bon-bons and the occasional clueless narc, in a darkened “three-room converted dungeon”. Now back to the actual story!
Frito and Spam now descended into the bowels of Sol Hurok with Goddam right behind them. Or so they assumed. Deeper and deeper they plunged into the dark heavy vapors of the cavernous passageways, tripping continually on piles of skulls and rotting treasure chests. With unseeing eyes they searched through the blackness.
"Sure is dark, I'm a-thinkin'," whispered Spam.
"Brilliant observation," shushed Frito. "Are you sure this is the right way, Goddam?"
There was no answer.
"Must have gone on ahead," Frito said hopefully.
A long time they inched their way forward through the murky tunnels. Frito clutched the ring tightly. He heard a faint squishing noise ahead in the tunnel. Frito stopped in his tracks, and since Spam had hold of his tail, they fell with a clatter that echoed and re-echoed loudly through the black spaces. The squishing subsided, then grew louder. And closer.
"Back the other way," rasped Frito, "and quickly!"
The boggies fled the ominous squishing down many twists and turns, but it was still gaining on them, and the sickening odor of stale bon-bons filled the air. They ran blindly on until a great commotion before them blocked further escape.
“Piles of skulls” and “rotting treasure chests”
A. Is this an eerily prescient vision of Peter Jackson’s Return of the King and the Pirates of the Caribbean franchise? If not, what is the source of the imagery?
We find ourselves in the “bowels of Sol Hurok” (the phrase occurs twice within a page; tch, sloppy writing...):
B. With so obvious an opportunity, why no mention of the smell, which so dominates this scene in the original?
“A long time they inched their way forward through the murky tunnels.” Tolkien has often been criticized for his faux-medieval inverted syntax. Yet it’s pretty rare in BotR’s narrative voice, I think, being mostly used to mock the nobler characters’ dialogue.
C. Dare we ask if the writers did this consciously to spoof Tolkien, or unconsciously under the influence of the master, which has been more honored in this chapter than in most of the previous ones?
D. What is the squishing?
The Ring??
E. Gee, why is Frito suddenly clutching the ring? When was it last mentioned in the story? What are its powers, again? What would happen if Frito put it on?
Ditto for the tail.
F. Takers? Pullers?
Read the section from “A long time they inched…” to “…blocked further escape.”
G. Is it funny or parodical or straight? Should we observe, “A hundred words without a punchline. Our ‘Poonies must be sick”?
"Look out," whispered Frito, "it's a patrol of narcs."
Spam soon knew that this was so, for their foul tongues and clanking armor were unmistakable. They were, as usual, disputing and cracking filthy jokes as they approached. Frito and Spam flattened themselves against the wall, hoping to escape unseen.
"Cripes," hissed a voice in the dark, "this place always gives me the creeps!"
"Nuts to you," lashed back another, "the lookout says that boggie with the Ring is in here."
"Yeah," opined a third, "and if we don't get it Sorhed'll break us back down to nightmares."
"Third class," agreed a fourth.
The narcs grew closer and the boggies held their breath as they passed. Just as Frito thought they had passed, a cold, slimy hand clutched his chest.
"Hoo boy!" exulted the narc. "I got 'em, I got 'em!"
In a trice the narcs were upon them with billyclubs and handcuffs.
"Sorhed will be pleased to see you two!" cackled a narc, pressing his face (and breath) close to Frito's.
Here come the narcs, while Frito and Spam are still together and before they confront Schlob. In the original, of course, it’s only Sam who has this encounter, having driven off Shelob and left Frodo behind.
H. How are the narcs here different from the orcs in Tolkien’s version?
I feel there are some interesting word choices here:
“Cripes”
“Nuts to you”
“that boggie with the Ring”
“break us back down to nightmares”
“Third class,” agreed a fourth
cold, slimy hand
“Hoo boy!”
In a trice
billyclubs and handcuffs
pressing his face (and breath)
I. What do they mean? And are they in keeping with the general BotR parodic vocabulary?
Now finally, some action!
All at once a great, guttural moan shivered the dark tunnel and the narcs fell back in terror.
"Crud!" a narc screamed. "It's her nibs!"
"Schlob! Schlob!" wailed another, lost in the darkness.
Frito drew Tweezer from its scabbard, but could see nothing to strike. Thinking quickly, he remembered the magic snowglobe given him by Lavalier. Holding the glass at arm's length, he hopefully pressed the little button on the bottom. Immediately a blinding carbon arc-light flooded the dank surroundings, revealing a vast chamber of formica paneling and cheap chintz.
And there, before them, was the terrible bulk of Schlob.
Spam cried out at the sight most horrible to behold. She was a huge, shapeless mass of quivering flesh. Her flame-red eyes glowered as she slogged forward to the narcs, her tatty print shift dragged on the stone floor. Falling upon her fear-frozen victims with her fat body, she ripped them apart with taloned house slippers and sharp fangs dripping great yellow droplets of chicken soup.
"Wash behind your ears!" Schlob shrieked as she tore a narc limb from limb and discarded his armor like a candy wrapper.
"You never take me anywhere!" she foamed, popping the wriggling torso into her maw. "The best years of my life I gave you!" she raged, her sharp red fingernails reaching out for the boggies.
Frito stepped back against the wall and slashed at the greedy nails with Tweezer, only managing to chip the enamel. Schlob squealed, further enraged. As the ravenous creature closed in, Frito's last memory was of Spam frantically schpritzing insect repellent into Schlob's bottomless gullet.
Well, that’s the cliff-hanging end of this chapter! What will happen next?? We won’t soon find out because, in the Lampoon’s established tradition of medieval entrelacement, the next chapter returns to the fateful battle between Twodor and Fordor. But here are some final questions:
“Crud” and “Cripes” are the curses of the narcs. Tolkien once observed that, in his portrayal of the orcs, “their language was actually more degraded and filthy than I have shown it. I do not suppose that any will wish for a closer rendering,” (LotR, App. F)
J. Why would Bored of the Rings, in 1969, not use more ‘realistic’ curse words for the narcs?
Frodo draws “Tweezer”, evidently a spoof on “Sting”, from his scabbard.
K. Have we encountered Tweezer before this? Why is it called that?
From Chapter 5, in which the Company receives gifts from the Elf Lady, Lavalier: "For Frito, a little magic," and the boggie found in his hand a marvelous crystal globe filled with floating snowflakes.
L. Why do snow globes seem so magical? And how does this device, with its “blinding carbon arc-light", relate to the mallomar and the insect repellent?
“Falling upon her fear-frozen victims with her fat body”
M. Is this excellent example of alliteration an homage to Beowulf, to LotR, or to random word choice?
“taloned house slippers”
N. *Idly asks* Where else have we seen taloned house slippers on a Tolkien monster, eh? Know what I mean? Aye, know what I mean?
“ripped them apart”, “limb from limb”, “wriggling torso”
O. Not very Tolkien! Where, then, does this imagery come from? And why?
"Wash behind your ears!" "You never take me anywhere!" "The best years of my life I gave you!"
P. What the heck is she talking about?
“Frito's last memory was of Spam frantically schpritzing insect repellent into Schlob's bottomless gullet.”
Q. Not to be totally offensive, but is this a Holocaust reference?
Here’s a final thought as we part from this chapter, and from the last major female character. In this parody, Galadriel is a ditsy nymphomaniac; Eowyn is a Nazi dominatrix; Shelob is a Jewish housewife from Hell.
R. Are these stereotypical female laff objects more degraded than their male equivalents, cf. the treatments received by Gandalf, Aragorn, Denethor, or Saruman? Or are Beard and Kenney being equal-opportunity offensive?
See you in the funny papers when we pick up with Chapter 9 in the oh-so-distant near future!
And now back to our regularly scheduled Lord of the Rings discussion.
squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd & 4th TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion and NOW the 1st BotR Discussion too! and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary
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swordwhale
Tol Eressea
Apr 1 2015, 4:23pm
Post #2 of 6
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been so long since I actually reaad this...
A friend's mom once said: "It will ruin you..."
Na 'Aear, na 'Aear! Mýl 'lain nallol, I sûl ribiel a i falf 'loss reviol...
To the sea, to the sea, the white gulls are crying, the wind is blowing and the white foam is flying...
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Darkstone
Immortal
Apr 2 2015, 9:54pm
Post #3 of 6
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“Piles of skulls” and “rotting treasure chests”
A. Is this an eerily prescient vision of Peter Jackson’s Return of the King and the Pirates of the Caribbean franchise?
Perhaps they found the good Professor’s time travelling technique that had allowed him to crib so much of his story from George Lucas?
If not, what is the source of the imagery?
The pile of skulls would seem to be an homage to Tolkien himself:
I suppose as a boy [H. Rider Haggard's novel] "She" interested me as much as anything—like the Greek shard of Amyntas [Amenartas], which was the kind of machine by which everything got moving.
-Henry Resnick, "An Interview with Tolkien", Niekas, 1967.
So far as I could judge, this pit was about the size of the space beneath the dome of St. Paul's in London, and when the lamps were held up I saw that it was nothing but one vast charnel-house, being literally full of thousands of human skeletons, which lay piled up in an enormous gleaming pyramid, formed by the slipping down of the bodies at the apex as fresh ones were dropped in from above. Anything more appalling than this jumbled mass of the remains of a departed race I cannot imagine, and what made it even more dreadful was that in this dry air a considerable number of the bodies had simply become desiccated with the skin still on them, and now, fixed in every conceivable position, stared at us out of the mountain of white bones, grotesquely horrible caricatures of humanity. In my astonishment I uttered an ejaculation, and the echoes of my voice, ringing in the vaulted space, disturbed a skull that had been accurately balanced for many thousands of years near the apex of the pile. Down it came with a run, bounding along merrily towards us, and of course bringing an avalanche of other bones after it, till at last the whole pit rattled with their movement, even as though the skeletons were getting up to greet us.
-She, H. Rider Haggard
As for “rotting treasure chests”:
It is years since the old palace was occupied, but my dragoman, Abdullah, routed out a caretaker, who produced enormous keys, forced protesting locks and let us in.
After pattering down dark passages we came out into the sunlight of the central court, which has a small fountain in the middle and lofty rooms all round, opening directly into it. One of these had been the Sultan's private mosque and another his audience chamber. All had ceilings of elaborate stalactiform carving, but spiders had spun their dingy webs from peak to pinnacle, and damp had tarnished all the gilt and scarlet; the mosaic tile work on the walls was crumbling out. A blue pigeon sat preening itself on the door of the Sultan's chamber, and lizards whisked in and out of cracks in the rotting treasure-chests.
-Crosbie Garstin, The Coast of Romance (1922)
Garstin was a very successful Cornish writer of poetry, WWI memoirs, world travelogues, and historical novels during the 1920s. His last novel, China Seas, was made into a highly successful and still highly regarded film with three of Hollywood’s biggest stars of the 1930s: Clark Gable, Jean Harlow and Wallace Beery.
Sadly, within hours of sending off the manuscript of China Seas, he went missing the coast of Penzance, in a dingy accident similar to that which took Drogo Baggins, though in this case the young actress he was with survived.
Rumors of him surviving and writing under various pseudonyms persisted until the 1960s. However, no one has really explained why he would do such a thing.
We find ourselves in the “bowels of Sol Hurok” (the phrase occurs twice within a page; tch, sloppy writing...):
Considering the location, “sloppy” is the polite word.
B. With so obvious an opportunity, why no mention of the smell, which so dominates this scene in the original?
The sense of smell is said to be very difficult to convey in writing. Apparently the writers didn’t feel up to the challenge.
“A long time they inched their way forward through the murky tunnels.” Tolkien has often been criticized for his faux-medieval inverted syntax. Yet it’s pretty rare in BotR’s narrative voice, I think, being mostly used to mock the nobler characters’ dialogue.
C. Dare we ask if the writers did this consciously to spoof Tolkien, or unconsciously under the influence of the master, which has been more honored in this chapter than in most of the previous ones?
We dare. Reading Tolkien can do that. I know during my Dickens phase my speech patterns changed. I won’t even mention my Lovecraft phase.
D. What is the squishing?
If you have to ask you’re very fortunate.
The Ring??
E. Gee, why is Frito suddenly clutching the ring?
Probably wants to blow the magic whistle, sound the flat E, and cause Schlob to run off screaming. It might just be crazy enough to work! But probably not.
When was it last mentioned in the story?
Back during the backstory about Sorehed and Schlob, then before that when Frito met Farahslax.
What are its powers, again?
The wearer can perform impossible deeds, control all creatures to his bidding, vanquish invincible armies, converse with fish and fowl, bend steel in his bare hands, leap tall parapets at a single bound, win friends and influence people, and fix parking tickets.
What would happen if Frito put it on?
His heart would harden, he’d develop stomach ulcers, become logy and irritable, prone to neuritis, neuralgia, nagging backache, and frequent colds, his pockets would turn green, he’d become constipated, and soon no one would invite him to parties anymore.
(I probably missed a few.)
Ditto for the tail.
F. Takers? Pullers?
Goodgulf’s note about "four boggies, one with a pink tail.", though Serutan was wearing a red leotard with a barbed tail after that.
Read the section from “A long time they inched…” to “…blocked further escape.”
G. Is it funny or parodical or straight?
Yes.
Should we observe, “A hundred words without a punchline. Our ‘Poonies must be sick”?
Surely if we can forgive the good Professor The House of Tom Bombadil and The Council of Elrond chapters, we can forgive our ‘Poonies a mere hundred words.
(BTW, is that a picture of Lenny Bruce? He looks so young! And clean! And I mean "clean" as in "not stoned out of his gourd"!)
Here come the narcs, while Frito and Spam are still together and before they confront Schlob. In the original, of course, it’s only Sam who has this encounter, having driven off Shelob and left Frodo behind.
H. How are the narcs here different from the orcs in Tolkien’s version?
Umm…Government sanctioned over-reach by jackbooted thugs utilizing brutal violence and unbridled sadism? I guess the difference is the t-shirts.
I feel there are some interesting word choices here:
“Cripes”
A British euphemism for “Christ”. It’s associated with Charles Hamilton’s obnoxious schoolboy Billy Bunter, who appeared in magazine serials from 1908 to 1940, novels, stage plays, and a BBC television series up into the 1960s, and comic strips up to the present. Even now Bunter pops up in cameos in places as diverse as The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen and Doctor Who. Put the rotund antihero Bunter in a boggie suit and he’d fit right in.
“Nuts to you”
1930s college slang. “Nuts” is a euphemism for testicles. Further refined by the Hayes Office to “nerts” for movies in the 1930s and 1940s. Today a physical representation would be “teabagging”. At the siege of Bastogne in WWII “Nuts!” was the famous response by General Mcauliffe to German surrender terms.
“that boggie with the Ring”
Possibly a reference to the European folktale “The Lady with the Ring” popular from the 14th to the 19th century. A grave-robber cuts off a supposedly dead lady’s finger to steal her ring and gets a nasty surprise. Like with Gollum in LOTR it does not end well for the grave-robber.
“break us back down to nightmares”
An interesting phrase. The first implication is demotion to a lower military rank.
On the other hand, to paraphrase Shakespeare:
Our revels now are ended. These our actors,
As I foretold you, were all spirits, and
Are melted into air, into thin air:
And like the baseless fabric of this vision,
The cloud-capp'd tow'rs, the gorgeous palaces,
The solemn temples, the great globe itself,
Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve,
And, like this insubstantial pageant faded,
Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff
As nightmares are made on; and our little life
Is rounded with a sleep.
-The Tempest, Act 4, scene 1
(Bold substitution mine)
That is, Sorehed will break them down to the basic components of dread and terror.
“Third class,” agreed a fourth
Back to the military reference, to my knowledge the only third class ranks are in the US Navy, Coast Guard, and Naval Cadet Corp, either Petty Officer Third Class or Musician Third Class.
Interestingly, a “third class honours degree” in Britain is often called a "Sportsman's" as it is imagined one played sports instead of studying.
Either way “third class” is the bottom rung, though I understand Oxford had or has a Fourth Class Honours.
cold, slimy hand
I recall several ghost stories where a visitor to a graveyard gets grabbed by a cold, slimy hand, dies of fright, and is found the next morning caught on a tree branch.
In any case, nice to find out what exactly is on the end of the Long Arm of the Law.
“Hoo boy!”
A catchphrase of villain Boris Badenov of the 1960s cartoon show Rocky and Bullwinkle.
In a trice
Nowadays it means “in a short time”.
Previously it meant “at one pull”:
The howndis that were of gret prise,
Pluckid downe dere all at a tryse.
(The hounds that were of great price,
Plucked down deer all at a trice.)
-The Lyfe of Ipomydon, 1440, based on the late-twelfth century work by Hue de Rotelande
billyclubs and handcuffs
Handcuffs will get soft and billy clubs will topple over, let's go on being free anyhow.
-Jack Kerouac, The Dharma Bums
Most Use of Force protocols state that blunt weapons such as billyclubs are not to be used after the suspect is handcuffed. Which is why during some arrests a policeman might allegedly be heard to say “Don’t cuff him yet!”
pressing his face (and breath)
Kinda implies his breath has a solidity equal to his face.
I. What do they mean?
Not a clue.
And are they in keeping with the general BotR parodic vocabulary?
From Anglo-Norman poetry, to Medieval folklore, to Shakespeare, to turn of the century British schoolboy adventures, to 1930s collegiate slang, to Beat generation poets, seemingly so, at least according to my highly questionable interpretations.
Immediately a blinding carbon arc-light flooded the dank surroundings, revealing a vast chamber of formica paneling and cheap chintz.
I suppose in Britain it would be paneled in cheap Norwegian pine wood. (Do I hear a sitar playing?)
And there, before them, was the terrible bulk of Schlob.
Thanks for not using a photo of Divine.
“Crud” and “Cripes” are the curses of the narcs. Tolkien once observed that, in his portrayal of the orcs, “their language was actually more degraded and filthy than I have shown it. I do not suppose that any will wish for a closer rendering,” (LotR, App. F)
J. Why would Bored of the Rings, in 1969, not use more ‘realistic’ curse words for the narcs?
It probably would limit its market. In the 1960s I bought most of my non-used paperbacks in pharmacies and supermarkets. The only real, honest-to-God retail bookstore I knew of was on West Jefferson Boulevard, just down the street from the Texas Theater where they caught Lee Harvey Oswald. I had to ride the bus and make a couple of transfers to get there. It was small, cramped, the fantasy and science fiction selection was only half a shelf, but I did find The Tolkien Reader and Smith of Wooten Manor & Farmer Giles of Ham there.
Of course nowadays we have malls with two or three huge bookstores with entire sections devoted to fantasy and science fiction, not to mention tons of stuff available on-line.
Frodo draws “Tweezer”, evidently a spoof on “Sting”, from his scabbard.
K. Have we encountered Tweezer before this?
"Anyway, I have a few small gifts for you," and he produced a lumpy parcel, which Frito opened somewhat unenthusiastically in view of Dildo's previous going-away present. But the package contained only a short, Revereware sword, a bulletproof vest full of moth holes, and several well-thumbed novellas with titles like “Elf Lust” and “Goblin Girl”.
-Chapter 4: Finders Keepers, Finders Weepers
Why is it called that?
I suppose it’s in keeping with the horrors that one finds inside a lady’s dressing room:
A Pair of Tweezers next he found
To pluck her Brows in Arches round,
Or Hairs that sink the Forehead low,
Or on her Chin like Bristles grow.
-Jonathan Swift, The Lady’s Dressing Room
From Chapter 5, in which the Company receives gifts from the Elf Lady, Lavalier: "For Frito, a little magic," and the boggie found in his hand a marvelous crystal globe filled with floating snowflakes.
L. Why do snow globes seem so magical?
Control the weather and you can control the world!!! Mwahahahahaha!!!!!
And how does this device, with its “blinding carbon arc-light", relate to the mallomar and the insect repellent?
Carbon arc-lights were the big electrical lighting system of the 19th century. By the turn of the century they were pretty much nudged out by filament lamps.
Time marches on, old things fade....
“Falling upon her fear-frozen victims with her fat body”
M. Is this excellent example of alliteration an homage to Beowulf, to LotR, or to random word choice?
I’d say an homage to getting stuck with a ring (or albatross) around your neck:
The fair breeze blew, the white foam flew,
The furrow followed free;
We were the first that ever burst
Into that silent sea.
-Samuel Taylor Coleridge, The Rime of the Ancient Mariner
“taloned house slippers”
N. *Idly asks* Where else have we seen taloned house slippers on a Tolkien monster, eh? Know what I mean? Aye, know what I mean?
“ripped them apart”, “limb from limb”, “wriggling torso”
O. Not very Tolkien! Where, then, does this imagery come from? And why?
EC Comics, whose gory horror tales in the 1950s led to Congressional hearings, the threat of government censorship, and the self-regulatory Comics Code Authority. Comics in a magazine format, like what (Tales Calculated to Drive You) Mad converted to, and later National Lampoon, were exempt.
"Wash behind your ears!"
A common parental command during the 1950s and 1960s because, hey, crud builds up back there! Or used to. In the 1970s ads featuring Farrah Fawcett and Christie Brinkley convinced people of the necessity of shampooing several times a week. Shampooing also cleans behind the ears so the threat of potatoes (or abscesses) growing in the dirt behind ears has pretty much vanished from 21st century concerns.
"You never take me anywhere!"
A stereotypical complaint by house-bound housewives of the 1950s and 1960s. In 1967 United Airlines started its “Take Me Along” ad campaign offering two-for-one ticket fares so husbands could take their wives along on business trips.
"The best years of my life I gave you!"
“The Best Years of Our Lives” was an extremely successful and critically acclaimed movie about American veterans returning from WWII to find unemployment, indifference, and disillusion. Thus the title is ironic in that these veterans look back on their time in the service as the best years of their lives. The wife of one of the veterans actually says the line “I gave up the best years of my life” referring to the time she spent waiting for him to return. However he finds out she spent those years, and his paychecks, with other men while he was overseas.
P. What the heck is she talking about?
Haven’t the slightest.
“Frito's last memory was of Spam frantically schpritzing insect repellent into Schlob's bottomless gullet.”
Q. Not to be totally offensive, but is this a Holocaust reference?
Probably more a Dr. Seuss reference:
Here’s a final thought as we part from this chapter, and from the last major female character. In this parody, Galadriel is a ditsy nymphomaniac; Eowyn is a Nazi dominatrix; Shelob is a Jewish housewife from Hell.
It’s still a maiden/matron/crone goddess trinity as in the book.
R. Are these stereotypical female laff objects more degraded than their male equivalents, cf. the treatments received by Gandalf, Aragorn, Denethor, or Saruman?
More stereotype type jokes for them rather than the more specifically aimed barbs for the guys. Dunno if that's better or worse.
Or are Beard and Kenney being equal-opportunity offensive?
From various National Lampoon issues and special editions (such as "Cowgirls at War") one can only imagine the semi-pornographic artwork if they’d only had the budget.
See you in the funny papers when we pick up with Chapter 9 in the oh-so-distant near future!
And now back to our regularly scheduled Lord of the Rings discussion.
Thanks for leading!
******************************************
No Orc, No Orc!!
It's a wonderful town!!!
Mount Doom blew up,
And the Black Tower's down!!
The orcs all fell in a hole in the ground!
No Orc, No Orc!!
It's a heckuva town!!!
-Lord of the Rings: The Musical, music by Leonard Bernstein, lyrics by Betty Comden and Adolph Green
(This post was edited by Darkstone on Apr 2 2015, 9:55pm)
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dernwyn
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Apr 4 2015, 5:01am
Post #4 of 6
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But - but - I LIKED that backstory!
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It fit perfectly with Tolkien's sudden backstory of Shelob! Granted, he didn't go into as much detail, but it would have been fun...
A. Is this an eerily prescient vision of Peter Jackson’s Return of the King and the Pirates of the Caribbean franchise? If not, what is the source of the imagery?
Yo-ho-ho! This be your typical pirate's cave. And it's in contrast with the smooth floor surface Frodo and Sam encounter.
We find ourselves in the “bowels of Sol Hurok” (the phrase occurs twice within a page; tch, sloppy writing...):
B. With so obvious an opportunity, why no mention of the smell, which so dominates this scene in the original?
It does feel like a missed opportunity, does it not? Unless for some odd reason, they felt they wouldn't be able to get their ideas about it past the publishers.
“A long time they inched their way forward through the murky tunnels.” Tolkien has often been criticized for his faux-medieval inverted syntax. Yet it’s pretty rare in BotR’s narrative voice, I think, being mostly used to mock the nobler characters’ dialogue.
C. Dare we ask if the writers did this consciously to spoof Tolkien, or unconsciously under the influence of the master, which has been more honored in this chapter than in most of the previous ones?
I concur with Darkstone. Reading Tolkien can do this to you.
D. What is the squishing?
The sound made by the foam soles of worn-out houseslippers on hard flooring. I've had a pair like that. Probably influenced by the Lampoon's cleaning-lady.
The Ring??
E. Gee, why is Frito suddenly clutching the ring? When was it last mentioned in the story? What are its powers, again? What would happen if Frito put it on?
He's clutching the thing closest to him that he CAN clutch, out of fear. Probably would have preferred a teddy bear! One thing this Ring can not do is make its wearer invisible. If it could, Frito would already be high-tailing it out of there, leaving Sam to fend for himself.
Ditto for the tail.
F. Takers? Pullers?
Good question. There was little tale of the tails since we were introduced to the "tail-wagging idiots" Moxie and Pepsi.
Read the section from “A long time they inched…” to “…blocked further escape.”
G. Is it funny or parodical or straight? Should we observe, “A hundred words without a punchline. Our ‘Poonies must be sick”?
The slapstick of their echoing fall and the odor of bon-bons is not what I'd call "without a punchline"! Granted, it does seem like our writers are running out of steam, but they ain't straight yet!
H. How are the narcs here different from the orcs in Tolkien’s version?
Uniformed, maybe? This scene actually brings to mind Frodo and Sam's encounter with the orc-soldiers in Mordor, being detected by them at the last as they were being passed by.
I feel there are some interesting word choices here...
I. What do they mean? And are they in keeping with the general BotR parodic vocabulary?
Darkstone pretty much covered these. I love the "break us back down to nightmares - third class", and probably sent to the closet of Michael Binkley in Bloom County.
Tolkien once observed that, in his portrayal of the orcs, “their language was actually more degraded and filthy than I have shown it. I do not suppose that any will wish for a closer rendering,” (LotR, App. F)
J. Why would Bored of the Rings, in 1969, not use more ‘realistic’ curse words for the narcs?
Aw, it's more fun this way! More "realistic" curse words are for the mass-market paperbacks. Besides, the writers are going for more of a Keystone Kops style for their narcs.
Frodo draws “Tweezer”, evidently a spoof on “Sting”, from his scabbard.
K. Have we encountered Tweezer before this? Why is it called that?
That's an odd name to give a Revere-ware (this is Boston, I supposed that had to be worked into the text somewhere!) sword. The name is only used twice, here and a short ways down the text. "Nailfile" would have been more appropriate.
L. Why do snow globes seem so magical? And how does this device, with its “blinding carbon arc-light", relate to the mallomar and the insect repellent?
Shake, shake - look mommy, I made the snow fall! It's that sense of wonder which easily enthralls the young. Like the wonder of a mallomar/8-Ball's answers. And the wonder that Spam still had any spray left in the can.
“Falling upon her fear-frozen victims with her fat body”
M. Is this excellent example of alliteration an homage to Beowulf, to LotR, or to random word choice?
Nah, it's just a good old-fashioned horror show.
“taloned house slippers”
N. *Idly asks* Where else have we seen taloned house slippers on a Tolkien monster, eh? Know what I mean? Aye, know what I mean?
Seems to me, there was this Balrog by Bakshi...
“ripped them apart”, “limb from limb”, “wriggling torso”
O. Not very Tolkien! Where, then, does this imagery come from? And why?
I'd forgotten about those comics until Darkstone mentioned them. Thanks, Darkstone...
"Wash behind your ears!" "You never take me anywhere!" "The best years of my life I gave you!"
P. What the heck is she talking about?
Hell hath no fury as an ex-wife scorned. The mom screaming at her kids, whining to her absent husband, all her sacrifice for them - and for what? And she has only those who venture into her lair to take it out on.
“Frito's last memory was of Spam frantically schpritzing insect repellent into Schlob's bottomless gullet.”
Q. Not to be totally offensive, but is this a Holocaust reference?
Hm, no, I never saw it that way, just a clever use of the insect repellent on a monstrous insect-resembling form. I wonder what effect it would have had on Shelob.
In this parody, Galadriel is a ditsy nymphomaniac; Eowyn is a Nazi dominatrix; Shelob is a Jewish housewife from Hell.
R. Are these stereotypical female laff objects more degraded than their male equivalents, cf. the treatments received by Gandalf, Aragorn, Denethor, or Saruman? Or are Beard and Kenney being equal-opportunity offensive?
I find these three gals far better individualized than most of the males! Their characters are nicely defined. In comparison the guys are just...idiot guys.
Thanks for leading us onward into the bowels of BotR, squire!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
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sador
Half-elven
Apr 14 2015, 12:57pm
Post #5 of 6
(1870 views)
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As usual, after the two maestros I have nothing interesting to add. So I'll add a few unintertesting comments.
A. Is this an eerily prescient vision of Peter Jackson’s Return of the King and the Pirates of the Caribbean franchise?
You mean the rare smile playing on Goddam's face? That's pretty much like the end of the travesty which is the 'Go home, Sam' scene.
B. With so obvious an opportunity, why no mention of the smell, which so dominates this scene in the original?
What do you consider "sickening odor of stale bon-bons filled the air"? A mention of taste?
C. Dare we ask if the writers did this consciously to spoof Tolkien, or unconsciously under the influence of the master, which has been more honored in this chapter than in most of the previous ones?
I seriously doubt he relished the honour.
D. What is the squishing?
Take your pick.
Here.
E. Gee, why is Frito suddenly clutching the ring?
An eerily prescient vision of Peter Jackson’s The Two Towers.
When was it last mentioned in the story?
I think when frightening off Farahslax.
What are its powers, again?
Nobody wants to be friends with him. Worked with Farahslax.
What would happen if Frito put it on?
Chances are he'll be electrocuted.
F. Takers? Pullers?
If you pull a boggie's tail, there is a limited chance that it might turn around and try making friends with you.
So I won't.
G. Is it funny or parodical or straight? Should we observe, “A hundred words without a punchline. Our ‘Poonies must be sick”?
Well, there isn't a true punchline; just a few overused gags.
But I would be sick myself, with the odor of stale bon-bons filling the air. And considering the Foreword, in which the 'poonies stated "Spring found us with decayed teeth", I think they had every reason to know what they were writing about, and to be sick indeed.
H. How are the narcs here different from the orcs in Tolkien’s version?
Hardly at all.
J. Why would Bored of the Rings, in 1969, not use more ‘realistic’ curse words for the narcs?
I have to quote the Foreword again: "Armed to the bicuspids with thesauri and reprints of international libel laws..."
Before the advent of Urban Dictionary and the like, more realistic curse words weren't to be found in those sources.
I'm skipping questions I and K.
L. Why do snow globes seem so magical? And how does this device, with its “blinding carbon arc-light", relate to the mallomar and the insect repellent?
I was personally thinking of something like Pepsi's magic wishing ball.
M. Is this excellent example of alliteration an homage to Beowulf, to LotR, or to random word choice?
Yes, especially when taking to account that in German 'victims' continues the alliteration!
N. *Idly asks* Where else have we seen taloned house slippers on a Tolkien monster, eh? Know what I mean? Aye, know what I mean?
Aye, I know what you mean. Somebody has been brreaking copyrights!
Apparently, when the 'poonies went through Prof. Smoot's Our Loosely Enforced Libel Laws, they never considered themselves as possible plaintiffs.
O. Not very Tolkien! Where, then, does this imagery come from? And why?
I'll take Darkstone's word for that.
But did you notice that her fangs dropped "great yellow droplets of chicken soup"? It's a good thing that Chikken Noddul is just around the corner!
P. What the heck is she talking about?
Her offspring, who really should knopw better than horsing aroud on pigs.
Q. Not to be totally offensive, but is this a Holocaust reference?
As a matter of fact, I never considered it as such.
I was more put in mind of the immigrants which were sprayed in Haifa with disinfectants lest they bring plague. I never bothered to check whether this was done in Ellis Island as well.
But "schpritzing" is a truly Yiddish word. Is it commonly used in the New York / New Jersey area?
R. Are these stereotypical female laff objects more degraded than their male equivalents, cf. the treatments received by Gandalf, Aragorn, Denethor, or Saruman? Or are Beard and Kenney being equal-opportunity offensive?
I'm not sure; the portraits of the male fellows are pretty vicious as well. But there might have been just more male characters than stereotypes.
And I find it interersting that there is no parody of Arwen. She is never mentioned (unless you want to consider the sleeping Lady Lycra as an Arwen-character).
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squire
Half-elven
Apr 14 2015, 5:56pm
Post #6 of 6
(1867 views)
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Compare: "Young she was and yet not so." (LotR II.1) with "Dead they looked, and yet it was not so... Asleep they were." (BotR 4).
With their unerring sense of relevance, our intrepid authors eliminated the mysterious, unexplained, and boring 'Aragorn and Arwen' story for the hot and obvious Arrowroot and Eorache one - just as Tolkien himself did when he first sketched out the Rohan episodes, and as Peter Jackson did, as much as he dared, during the filming of his "The Two Towers".
squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd & 4th TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion and NOW the 1st BotR Discussion too! and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary
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