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When did Aragorn journey into the East and the South?
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Apr 11 2015, 3:39pm

Post #26 of 28 (1191 views)
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Clarification regarding Gilraen [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

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With Gilrean; the text does not go in a linear line, there is nothing to keep her in Rivendell for another 30 odd years, and the structure and grammar of the parapraph prove my timeline.



I disagree. This entire section of the manuscript represents a sequence of events that places Gilraen's return to her own kindred several years after Aragorn and Arwen's betrothal. This reads so clearly to me that I can't see any basis for debate.



Just to be clear, I am referring specifically to the portion of LotR Appendix A(v), HERE FOLLOWS A PART OF THE TALE OF ARAGORN AND ARWEN, that begins with, 'Then Aragorn took leave lovingly of Elrond; and the next day he said farewell to his mother, and to the house of Elrond, and to Arwen, and he went out into the wild,' continuing all the way to the end of the account. It begins with a summary of Aragorn's experiences from the time when he leaves Rivendell through his early travels (both with and without Gandalf) and his errantries in Rohan and Gondor to his later travels "far into the East and deep into the South."

After the above summary the narrative backs up a bit to immediately after Aragorn takes his leave of Ecthelion II in Gondor. We know that this must be early in the year 2980 of the Third Age. Aragorn spends a short time in the Mountains of Shadow and ,weary of the perils he encountered there, turns back to return to Rivendell for a time. On his way there he finds himself at the edge of Lothlorien where he is admitted and is reunited with Arwen. The couple spend a season together are become betrothed on the evening of Midsummer. From Lorien, Aragorn continues to Rivendell where he is challenged by Elrond to become King of both Gondor and Arnor before being permitted to wed Arwen. After this, Aragorn again departs from Rivendell to face "danger and toil." This clearly represents the travels referenced in the summary that follow Aragorn's time in Gondor.

The text in the next paragraph speaks of Gilraen leaving Rivendell and it seems to me that this is clearly supposed to take place in these later years, after 2980. It it unreasonable to me to think that Tolkien is here going back to the period when Aragorn first left Rivendell at the age of twenty years. This is clearly a part of a larger passage that covers the later years of Aragorn's journeys. Robert Foster did make that leap in The Complete Guide to Middle-earth, but I think he was seriously mistaken in this.

Yes, Appendix B, THE TALE OF YEARS, gives a range from 2957 to 2880 for the period of Aragorn's great journeys and errantries. However, just as Appendix A goes back to include the five years before that after Aragorn first leaves Rivendell, it also continues beyond that period to include the years following 2980 as late as Aragorn's final visit to his mother in 3006.

"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Apr 11 2015, 3:47pm)


Laineth
Lorien

Apr 12 2015, 3:32am

Post #27 of 28 (1174 views)
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My... [In reply to] Can't Post

... job is to dissect what people say, to find the thought patterns behind them. I'm used to treating texts the same way. So yes, I guess I'm pretty literal.

We could keep going in circles, but it's clear we're not going to agree, which is fine. There's nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree. It's been a good conversation!


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Apr 12 2015, 1:14pm

Post #28 of 28 (1152 views)
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Fair enough... [In reply to] Can't Post

I just ask that you read my follow-up post to the one you replied to, which should be just above your last response. I expanded just a bit more on my interpretation of Tolkien's text. It may not change your mind on anything but, one never knows, it might.

It has been an interesting discussion.

"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock

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