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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
"Save it for the pieces"...
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dijomaja
Lorien

Mar 5 2015, 1:55pm

Post #1 of 30 (2631 views)
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"Save it for the pieces"... Can't Post

...as a NY Times reviewer used to say.

As a huge fan of LotR, book and films, who always found TH to be "a minor essay in the craft" I wasn't surprised to be underwhelmed by these movies. I'm sure everyone here has had and heard all the standard complaints so I won't go into them any further. My review of 'The Hobbit: Battle of the Five Armies' would have read, "Battle? Check. Armies? Check. Hobbit? Not so much."

Still, as the NYT reviewer might have said, we can "save it for the pieces". There were some good moments and any chance to visit Middle-earth is worth a look. I don't know how often I'll go back to sift through all the padding but I did feel the films were worth watching once. And I like the way the story ends where it should - with Gandalf knocking on Bilbo's door 60 years later...


(This post was edited by dijomaja on Mar 5 2015, 1:56pm)


Arannir
Valinor


Mar 5 2015, 3:38pm

Post #2 of 30 (2453 views)
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Kind of agree. [In reply to] Can't Post

I would never say the journey wasn't worth it... and indivdual pieces of it were absolutely brilliant. But it just didn't come together with the last one as it should have, imho.

But thanks to the EE documentaries, the vlogs, the communication with the filmmakers, this production gives its fans and supporters much more than just the movie. And these I have enjoyed immensely thus far and I am sure the BotFA EE will deliver as well - and might even help (a little bit at least) with the disappointment over the journey 's conclusion.

:)



"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien

We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.



(This post was edited by Arannir on Mar 5 2015, 3:41pm)


nusilver
Rohan


Mar 5 2015, 4:11pm

Post #3 of 30 (2421 views)
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some great pieces, and some really bad ones. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I would never say the journey wasn't worth it... and indivdual pieces of it were absolutely brilliant. But it just didn't come together with the last one as it should have, imho.

But thanks to the EE documentaries, the vlogs, the communication with the filmmakers, this production gives its fans and supporters much more than just the movie. And these I have enjoyed immensely thus far and I am sure the BotFA EE will deliver as well - and might even help (a little bit at least) with the disappointment over the journey 's conclusion.

:)


I still think the last 16 minutes of BOTFA are brilliant. And yes, there are pieces here and there that I love about it. But overall, I'm desperate with hope that the EE material will bring the whole thing together, because as it is, it's just a reminder to me of how tired Jackson, Walsh and Boyens have become, and how it was already past time for them to move on.

Things like Gandalf saying "we have questions that need answering" and Legolas/Tauriel's "These bats were bred for one purpose..." "for what?" exchange which (besides being terribly sloppy exposition in the case of the second example) serve NO purpose other than to call back to the previous film trilogy. How many of these moments did we get in the Hobbit trilogy, where characters repeated dialogue almost word for word from LOTR? That's bad enough, but it's even worse when characters are repeating lines from film to film within the same trilogy, like Bilbo saying a "sickness" or "disease" is upon something in both DOS and BOTFA? It turns them into caricatures. And it really, really bums me out. Because I think AUJ and DOS are almost uniformly beautiful films... and then there's BOTFA.

And don't get me started on Alfrid's "WHHHYYYY MEEEEEE," or the stupid arrow over the shoulder gimmick... nearly every great moment in this film aside from the last 16 minutes is counterbalanced by a stupid gimmick or unnecessary, unfunny "comic relief."

As I told my wife yesterday, I knew this was going to happen when they changed the name of the film to Battle of the Five Armies. Sigh.


(This post was edited by nusilver on Mar 5 2015, 4:13pm)


dormouse
Half-elven


Mar 5 2015, 4:34pm

Post #4 of 30 (2421 views)
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Half full or half empty.... [In reply to] Can't Post

For me The Hobbit films were a joy. No disappointments, no padding. Some things I like less, but I'm far too happy with the things I really like to bother about them - I'd say the same of the Lord of the Rings films too.

I'm constantly baffled by the idea that Bilbo wasn't at the centre of all three films - I saw him there, and such a performance it was.

So from me, no grudging half-praise or sighs for what might have been. I delight in what is - and say the films are worth watching over and over again - there will always be something new to discover. I can't wait for the DVD, and 20 April seems an age away.


swordwhale
Tol Eressea


Mar 5 2015, 5:32pm

Post #5 of 30 (2368 views)
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I'm with the Doormouse....... [In reply to] Can't Post

I might not like half of it as much at it deserves, or all of it half as much as it deserves, or something...

but there was awesome good stuff there, and it was a worthy revisit to Middle Earth.

I also think it's fine that a piece of art, film, etc stirs up a bit of thinking about what makes a good story...

Na 'Aear, na 'Aear! Mýl 'lain nallol, I sûl ribiel a i falf 'loss reviol...
To the sea, to the sea, the white gulls are crying, the wind is blowing and the white foam is flying...





Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Mar 5 2015, 5:42pm

Post #6 of 30 (2367 views)
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I am particularly baffled by that charge when applied to BotFA [In reply to] Can't Post

Having had the opportunity to watch it again on a digital download, I was struck yet again by how much Bilbo is the emotional center of that film. More so, I dare so, than in the equivalent portion of the book. I find it especially odd that on the one hand people complain that there isn't enough Bilbo in the film, and on the other hand they complain that so many loose ends are left regarding other characters, when to me it abundantly clear that the reason that so many loose ends are left is to keep the focus firmly on Bilbo (which works very well for me, indeed). There are definitely things that I don't like about these films, including BotFA (probably more than you, dear dormouse), but overall I find them to be an astounding achievement, on a level with (or even superior to, the LOTR films (with which I have more problems with, overall, though there is no denying the heights that they reach at times).

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


RosieLass
Valinor


Mar 5 2015, 5:58pm

Post #7 of 30 (2358 views)
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There are a lot of really fantastic things in the Hobbit movies. [In reply to] Can't Post

As always, the casting was awesome. Thorin and Bilbo and Bard and Gandalf and Thranduil and...and...and. Apart from the fact that she didn't belong in the film, I even liked Tauriel.

The sets and costumes and weapons were fantastic.

Smaug was sublime.

I don't know how often, if at all, I'll go back to look at the films again (I don't watch LOTR all that often, to be honest), but thank God for fast forward so that I can skip to the parts that were great.

"Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it."
--Joyce Meyer

A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP
--Leonard Nimoy


BlackFox
Half-elven


Mar 5 2015, 8:30pm

Post #8 of 30 (2275 views)
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Luckily, I have it the other way around [In reply to] Can't Post

I have my fair share of quibbles with these films, but the number comes nowhere near to the number of things that I enjoy about them. That is also where I've chosen to put my focus on.



(This post was edited by BlackFox on Mar 5 2015, 8:32pm)


Goldeneye
Lorien


Mar 5 2015, 9:33pm

Post #9 of 30 (2241 views)
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hmm [In reply to] Can't Post

Hypothetically speaking, what if those bad pieces were to be cut out and you only had the great ones remaining? Just saying.... Cool


nusilver
Rohan


Mar 5 2015, 9:48pm

Post #10 of 30 (2234 views)
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fan edits: no thank you. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Hypothetically speaking, what if those bad pieces were to be cut out and you only had the great ones remaining? Just saying.... Cool


Sorry. I'm just not all that interested in fan edits.


nusilver
Rohan


Mar 5 2015, 10:01pm

Post #11 of 30 (2222 views)
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digital download [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Having had the opportunity to watch it again on a digital download, I was struck yet again by how much Bilbo is the emotional center of that film. More so, I dare so, than in the equivalent portion of the book. I find it especially odd that on the one hand people complain that there isn't enough Bilbo in the film, and on the other hand they complain that so many loose ends are left regarding other characters, when to me it abundantly clear that the reason that so many loose ends are left is to keep the focus firmly on Bilbo (which works very well for me, indeed). There are definitely things that I don't like about these films, including BotFA (probably more than you, dear dormouse), but overall I find them to be an astounding achievement, on a level with (or even superior to, the LOTR films (with which I have more problems with, overall, though there is no denying the heights that they reach at times).


Yes, i've watched the film again on both an iPad and my Apple TV. I have to say, iTunes encodes are getting *very* good -- I've never seen a digital copy look so good. That said, they will never replace Blu-ray for me as long as they don't have HD audio as well. :)

Anyway. March 25th is my birthday. As I'm sure you all know, March 25th is a rather important day in Middle-earth history, and it coincides VERY nicely with a marathon, so this will be the first year I get to marathon all 6 films over 6 days. In that context, BOTFA isn't all that bad to me -- I *do* think it works well enough viewed IMMEDIATELY after DOS, and since it's really the middle chapter in a 6 film set, it doesn't bother me that it's also the worst IMO. It will precede 2 far greater films and one very good film :)


Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor


Mar 5 2015, 10:26pm

Post #12 of 30 (2215 views)
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My piece [In reply to] Can't Post

is that BOTFA was, I hate to say the "worst" of the three - I think I'll say the weakest instead, but I still loved it. Funny, I'd say "Return of the King" was my least favorite as well, perhaps it has something to do with both being the last of the trilogy. And part of the problem might be the ending - kind of like "Revenge of the Sith," really hard to like the movie when you know you'll hate the ending. When I read the last of RoTK I cried because of Frodo leaving on the ship, naturally I also cried in the movie. But that's NOTHING compared to Thorin's tragic end, not to mention Fili & Kili - I know I've said it, but I really HATED the book for that! Not wanting to go down that list again, but Richard and Martin did that scene SOOOO well that I loved and hated it at the same time, and cried my eyes out! Then PJ had to short-change us by cutting the funeral scene, REALLY bad call! I expect that will be included in the EE, but it's annoying that I have to wait so long for the movie I wanted to see - hopefully it won't feature more Alfrid, there was already too much of him!

OK, enough complaining - yes, I'll be buying the TE and the EE, so obviously I didn't hate it, and mostly loved it. Call me a Middle-Earth addict, my family sure does!Tongue

Why yes, I DO look like Anna Friel!


entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Mar 5 2015, 11:02pm

Post #13 of 30 (2228 views)
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Not to sidetrack, but [In reply to] Can't Post

you might be able to satisfy my curiosity. In the US, we tend to write and speak our dates as month, then day, so your comment would be April 20th instead of 20 April, as you wrote. When you are speaking out loud, do Brits say "20 April" or "April 20th"?

Smile


dormouse
Half-elven


Mar 5 2015, 11:45pm

Post #14 of 30 (2194 views)
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Day then month... [In reply to] Can't Post

...is much more common in speaking, probably because iit's our written form so it's what we're used to. But we'd be more likely to say 'the 20th of April". I just write it as '20 April' out of habit because that's the convention in written history.

Do you find yourself doing a double take when you see it? I never understand US dating first time around if the month appears as a number - I always have to think about it.


entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Mar 6 2015, 12:33am

Post #15 of 30 (2170 views)
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We nearly always [In reply to] Can't Post

say "April 20th" so it makes sense to us to write the month, day and year as 4/20/15 or 4/20/2015. We will occasionally say "the twentieth of April" or sometimes "April 20" but it's mostly "April 20th".

Since I've been on this message board, I'm much more sensitive to dates, temperature and measurements. Sometimes I have to stop and think whether different countries measure time in a different way! But fortunately 10:30 am is not confusing - you all may say half-past 10, but we can manage to translate that. Smile


Ataahua
Forum Admin / Moderator


Mar 6 2015, 3:49am

Post #16 of 30 (2118 views)
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The one that used to get me is "half-ten". [In reply to] Can't Post

I was confused for a long time about whether that was half an hour before 10 o'clock or half an hour after. (It's after, BTW.)

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Starling
Half-elven


Mar 6 2015, 6:20am

Post #17 of 30 (2084 views)
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And how about the fights about what 'next [insert day of week here]' means? [In reply to] Can't Post

I have seen confusion at work when people are trying to arrange meetings and someone says, "Let's meet next Wednesday," or whatever.
Apparently in NZ there is a direct correlation with Scottish heritage if you use this term correctly, as I of course do. Angelic


Glorfindela
Valinor


Mar 6 2015, 12:11pm

Post #18 of 30 (2049 views)
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Delurking briefly to respond to this [In reply to] Can't Post

Another one (when reading UK English texts, as opposed to American English ones) is the use of things like 'he met with Fred'. In correct UK English you would say 'he met Fred'.

Another one: 'there are 150 different endemic species'. The 'different' is superfluous in such a sentence. (This is not an 'americanism'.)

Another one I came across the other day: ‘A daughter means that the father is allowed to leave…’, to mean ‘Following the birth of a daughter the father is allowed to leave…’ (the word 'means' is often used incorrectly in this way).

Another one: 'Sir McKellen' (incorrect) rather than 'Sir Ian' (correct).

Correct written form for dates in UK English is '23 December 2013'.

(You may think I am pedantic about such things, but I know many people who are far more pedantic than I am…)


smtfhw
Lorien

Mar 6 2015, 1:14pm

Post #19 of 30 (2014 views)
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I would say... [In reply to] Can't Post

20th of April...


smtfhw
Lorien

Mar 6 2015, 1:16pm

Post #20 of 30 (2011 views)
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Not Helped by the fact that I also speak German... [In reply to] Can't Post

Where "Halb zehn" is actually half past 9 not 10...


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Mar 6 2015, 2:58pm

Post #21 of 30 (1996 views)
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Hmmm... [In reply to] Can't Post

So odd that of all the dates out there you chose as your example 4/20 ha ha.


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Mar 6 2015, 3:10pm

Post #22 of 30 (1998 views)
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I just had to explain [In reply to] Can't Post

to an Ethiopian co-worker who's new to America the whole 'quarter of', '10 'til', 'half past' thing the other day. So funny thinking about how odd phrases like that sound to someone not familiar with the language. Last night it was 'scalper', as in ticket scalper. Some of them sound really weird once you think about them.


Starling
Half-elven


Mar 6 2015, 7:49pm

Post #23 of 30 (1953 views)
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'Bring a plate' [In reply to] Can't Post

is a phrase people new to NZ often misunderstand.


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Mar 6 2015, 8:24pm

Post #24 of 30 (1943 views)
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Similarly, we have 'bring a dish' [In reply to] Can't Post

here in the US, although i was well into adulthood before i heard that one.

Yeah, i had to look up 'bring a plate'.


Eleniel
Tol Eressea


Mar 6 2015, 9:51pm

Post #25 of 30 (1926 views)
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I have an American friend who just loved the fact that we Brits say [In reply to] Can't Post

"I'm going to hospital..." or "she had gone to church..." whereas over the pond they always say "I'm going to THE hospital..." etc


He was tickled by the fact he could drop the definite article when talking to me! Laugh




"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort


(This post was edited by Eleniel on Mar 6 2015, 9:52pm)

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