|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Annael
Immortal
Mar 3 2015, 3:19pm
Post #1 of 16
(1092 views)
Shortcut
|
|
the value of disagreeing
|
Can't Post
|
|
As we saw last week, we often disagree on this board - sometimes vehemently. But I for one am glad of the chance to hear different points of view. This woman agrees that disagreement is, in fact, essential for all of us:
http://www.ted.com/...nan_dare_to_disagree
People with soul can identify with another person's basic human struggle without either judgment or indifference.
-- Thomas Moore
* * * * * * * * * *
NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967
|
|
|
swordwhale
Tol Eressea
Mar 3 2015, 4:47pm
Post #2 of 16
(990 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I hear the TED talks on NPR sometimes...
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
...fantastic stuff!
I suppose I tend to be catlike and avoid disagreements, but yes, through discussion, one learns and comes to consensus (a different thing from compromise).
Na 'Aear, na 'Aear! Mýl 'lain nallol, I sûl ribiel a i falf 'loss reviol...
To the sea, to the sea, the white gulls are crying, the wind is blowing and the white foam is flying...
|
|
|
NottaSackville
Valinor
Mar 3 2015, 5:07pm
Post #3 of 16
(976 views)
Shortcut
|
What value is there in open discussion of ideas? It only allows those wrongheaded individuals a wider audience and greater chance to pollute the purity of correctness.
Notta
 Happiness: money matters, but less than we think and not in the way that we think. Family is important and so are friends, while envy is toxic -- and so is excessive thinking. Beaches are optional. Trust is not. Neither is gratitude. - The Geography of Bliss by Eric Weiner as summarized by Lily Fairbairn. And a bit of the Hobbit reading thrown in never hurts. - NottaSackville
|
|
|
RosieLass
Valinor
Mar 3 2015, 6:08pm
Post #4 of 16
(1003 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I've learned a lot by listening to other points of view.
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
I've even changed my mind on some things because of someone else's ideas.
The problem with so called "discussion" these days, however, is that people aren't telling us what *they* think. They're spending all of their time and effort being insulting and offensive about anyone who doesn't agree with them.
Political "discussions" are nothing but slanging matches.
Apparently whoever is the loudest and drowns everyone else out wins. 
"Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it."
--Joyce Meyer
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP
--Leonard Nimoy
|
|
|
entmaiden
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Mar 3 2015, 9:18pm
Post #7 of 16
(940 views)
Shortcut
|
of trying to "win" the discussion, and people lose focus and use whatever weapon they have to win. It becomes more important that the other person admits defeat and all listening stops. It's not just political discussions - we have these conflicts every day on these message boards. 
|
|
|
Annael
Immortal
Mar 3 2015, 9:49pm
Post #8 of 16
(946 views)
Shortcut
|
|
what I find the most frustrating
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
is when one or both sides are simply repeating opinions they've decided to believe without ever having thought much about them or checked them out for themselves.
These are the people that I find are less likely to be able to "discuss" anything. All they can do is repeat the same opinion over and over. And, as noted, when others remain unconvinced, resort to sarcasm or insults (which to me just shouts of desperation).
The other tactic for avoiding real discussion is to make the other person's argument into something so extreme and far-out that it's ridiculous. Sadly all too often employed in our political arena.
So I am HUGELY appreciative of people who welcome and enjoy calm discussion of ideas. I love TORn in part because we ARE often so different, but most people seem willing to try to talk past our differences. It's a rare experience. It does help that we have at least one thing in common that we know we all love.
People with soul can identify with another person's basic human struggle without either judgment or indifference.
-- Thomas Moore
* * * * * * * * * *
NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967
|
|
|
Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Mar 3 2015, 11:46pm
Post #9 of 16
(908 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Arguing by extremes really annoys me.
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
The other tactic for avoiding real discussion is to make the other person's argument into something so extreme and far-out that it's ridiculous.
That's done in an effort to shut down the other person, not to continue a debate. Because it's usually done when a person is very close-minded or doesn't have data to back them up, I think of its use as a version of Godwin's Law: once an extreme example is made in rebuttal, the discussion is finished and whoever went 'in extremis' has automatically lost the debate.
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
|
|
|
Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea
Mar 4 2015, 12:49am
Post #10 of 16
(911 views)
Shortcut
|
...is the only way of coming to terms with a position which is so utterly unbelievable. It's not particularly mature, I grant you. But nobody's perfect. 
"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen
(This post was edited by Aragorn the Elfstone on Mar 4 2015, 12:49am)
|
|
|
AshNazg
Gondor
Mar 4 2015, 12:52am
Post #11 of 16
(911 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I read in an article that these kinds of "discussions" are unhealthy...
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
I'm too lazy to find my source right now (I'll look if someone asks me to), but their general point was that online "discussions" are potentially unhealthy because there's usually no resolve.
People online tend to argue their point with no respect to the alternate view and repeat points until one participant gives up. This doesn't bring a resolve to the disagreement, and leaves both participants mentally unsatisfied. The article also brought up issues of trolls and anonymity as means to express controversial opinions.
This is why I try not to belittle or disrespect other people's opinions when disagreeing with them. It's not always easy to do and I sometimes find myself apologising if I think I've come across wrong, But hopefully no-one's been offended by any of my past posts.
I think everyone needs to remember that while disagreements are important (especially in a community like this), disregarding other people's opinions or insulting them because of their opinion is not how a civilised discussion progresses - it almost always leads to a circle of negativity with no resolve.
(This post was edited by AshNazg on Mar 4 2015, 12:55am)
|
|
|
Annael
Immortal
Mar 4 2015, 5:50am
Post #12 of 16
(893 views)
Shortcut
|
because a real exchange of different ideas can be wonderful.
If only we saw that modeled for us more often.
People with soul can identify with another person's basic human struggle without either judgment or indifference.
-- Thomas Moore
* * * * * * * * * *
NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967
|
|
|
Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal
Mar 5 2015, 12:23am
Post #13 of 16
(836 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Thank you, that was a very interesting talk.
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
I'm reminded once again of the different ways people reacted to the recent "what color is the dress" thing.
Some people (not here, but online elsewhere) seemed to get pleasure out of yelling "I'm right and you're wrong! What an idiot you are that you can't see what I see." Or "The woman who owns the dress says it's black and blue, so you're wrong, ha ha ha!"
Others rolled their eyes and said, "This is stupid, can't we drop it now?" Maybe those were the people that were upset by the conflict.
And then there were people like me who grabbed our friends and loved ones and brought them to our screens and said, "Look, what do you see? Different from what I see? How wonderful! How fascinating!"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories
leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|
|
|
Annael
Immortal
Mar 5 2015, 1:35am
Post #14 of 16
(837 views)
Shortcut
|
got to talking about the dress today in my Jung studies group. One man apparently got very interested in the science of perception as a result of the brouhaha and is now having fun learning all about that.
People with soul can identify with another person's basic human struggle without either judgment or indifference.
-- Thomas Moore
* * * * * * * * * *
NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967
|
|
|
Morthoron
Gondor
Mar 5 2015, 2:22am
Post #15 of 16
(839 views)
Shortcut
|
But then, I am a contrarian.
Please visit my blog...The Dark Elf File...a slighty skewed journal of music and literary comment, fan-fiction and interminable essays.
|
|
|
zarabia
Tol Eressea
Mar 6 2015, 2:02am
Post #16 of 16
(806 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I'm often torn between wanting to express my often passionate views and my dislike of confrontation :/
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
But I usually feel safe here.
You realize that life goes fast
It's hard to make the good things last
You realize the sun doesn't go down
It's just an illusion caused by the world spinning 'round
~Do You Realize?, The Flaming Lips
(This post was edited by zarabia on Mar 6 2015, 2:05am)
|
|
|
|
|
