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Ereinion Nénharma
Lorien
Mar 2 2015, 1:27pm
Post #1 of 7
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About eagles and hobbits...
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I saw an interesting part in this story:
This is proven by the appearance of the Eagles as a sign of divine grace, a recognition of their willingness to give up everything, all the appearance of victory, in pursuit of the 'correct' values. In both trilogies, it is Hobbits and their unique courage and humility, temerity and love of home which convince both Aragorn and Thorin of what's really important.
I think this is interesting, because it gives a fantastic explanation for eagles arriving. They always arrive when someone does something totally selfless...when someone is ready to sacrifice himself to save ''the good'' / or redeems to the ''good''.
Near the Carrock, Bilbo sacrifices himself to save Thorin. At the Battle of the Five Armies, Thorin redeems and prefers song and cheer over gold. On Zirakzigil (and in Moria) Gandalf sacrificed himself to keep the ring(bearer) save. And at the Black Gate the army sacrificed itself to the same end.
Sooo, the eagles only arrive and help, when someone needs help in a true, honest and selfless cause...
Thoughts?
''Do not fear the shadows, for seeing them means light is near...''
(This post was edited by Ataahua on Mar 2 2015, 5:28pm)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Mar 2 2015, 3:31pm
Post #2 of 7
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Near the Carrock, Bilbo sacrifices himself to save Thorin. At the Battle of the Five Armies, Thorin redeems and prefers song and cheer over gold. On Zirakzigil (and in Moria) Gandalf sacrificed himself to keep the ring(bearer) save. And at the Black Gate the army sacrificed itself to the same end.
Sooo, the eagles only arrive and help, when someone needs help in a true, honest and selfless cause...
Thoughts?
I think the argument holds true for the the same scene from the book as well, although the circumstances are different. There, it is Gandalf, not Bilbo, who attempts to sacrifice himself, ready to (literally) fall upon the wargs and goblins to save the others in the company.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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Rembrethil
Tol Eressea
Mar 2 2015, 5:46pm
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I think that in the books, the Eagles are that Divine Grace that comes in to save the day when the heroes have done all they could. We all like to think that Good always trumps Evil, but in our world, that is not always the case. In Middle-Earth, however, such cherished notions can flourish. Sometimes our 'best' just isn't enough, and we fail. Sometimes in Middle-Earth, (and more dramatically so in RL), there is someone or something there to swoop in and make things right. In many ways, it is a reward for the self-sacrifice demonstrated by the hero in an impossible situation. That ignorance transforms hopelessness into virtue, and a 'higher power' transforms the circumstances.
I can remember a time where I had been cornered by a group of bullies. They had wanted me to join their band of thugs and vandalise some abandoned property. All I had to do was go along with their suggestion, and they would leave me alone. If I balked, they threatened gross bodily harm. Even as I stood, frightened out of my wits, I managed to refuse. The leader took one step towards me, and at that instant, three police officers stepped from the shadows to arrest the vandals. The detective later explained that he had waited to see if he had three or four arrests to make and was impressed by my decision. I walked home, and they took a ride to the police station.
I see strong parallels in their treatment in both books and film, and it it one of the many moments in the films that I see Tolkien's simplicity out-shine the million dollar production lights.
Call me Rem, and remember, not all who ramble are lost...Uh...where was I?
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Annael
Immortal
Mar 4 2015, 4:28pm
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traditionally, "magical help" is only allowed after the hero has accomplished the task; he must do it on his own, which is why Gandalf had to be taken out of the way, to prove that he is the right one for the job (and usually, the job of being King afterwards, which in a way Sam does take on - Frodo actually fails in the Quest, he doesn't destroy the Ring). Manwe wouldn't let the Eagles anywhere near the Ring, but once it's destroyed, they are allowed to help. The "magical return" to safety across the treacherous terrain that had to be negotiated on the way to accomplishing the deed is a common theme of Heroic Quest stories from around the world.
People with soul can identify with another person's basic human struggle without either judgment or indifference.
-- Thomas Moore
* * * * * * * * * *
NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967
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Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal
Mar 4 2015, 8:35pm
Post #5 of 7
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
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"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories
leleni at hotmail dot com
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Rembrethil
Tol Eressea
Mar 5 2015, 7:58pm
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I'm pretty sure my knees were knocking and my adolescent voice jumped through about 5 octaves or so in the course of the conversation. .. Not exactly the brave story it might seem to be...
Call me Rem, and remember, not all who ramble are lost...Uh...where was I?
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Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal
Mar 5 2015, 10:03pm
Post #7 of 7
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you go ahead
When your heart is feeling faint.
So you can be really brave
Only when you really ain't.
--Piet Hein
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"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories
leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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