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Does anyone recommend The History of Middle-earth books?

AshNazg
Gondor


Mar 1 2015, 3:54am

Post #1 of 22 (2450 views)
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Does anyone recommend The History of Middle-earth books? Can't Post

So first, let's offer broad answers for anyone who reads this thread wanting to know more about these books.

What are The History of Middle-earth (HoME) books like? Are they worth picking up? What can one expect from them? Are they recommended?

Now, for me personally. I love The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. I've read a lot of Tolkien, including The Silmarillion. But, while I found it interesting, I didn't really ENJOY reading The Silmarillion. I didn't find the writing style engaging and pushed through it purely out of interest in the facts.

Is HoME written in a similar "matter of fact" style to The Silmarillion? Is it a difficult read? And would you recommend it to someone that "didn't like" The Silmarillion? (I really enjoyed The Children of Hurin if that helps)

Thanks for any insight. Smile


Elizabeth
Half-elven


Mar 1 2015, 5:15am

Post #2 of 22 (2412 views)
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HoME is not really a "history of Middle Earth." [In reply to] Can't Post

It is a 12-volume collection of Tolkien's drafts of Middle Earth-related topics covering much of his adult life. The contents were collected by Christopher Tolkien, and include his comments on the various fragments from various periods. Only the most dedicated Tolkien follower owns the entire collection!

Volumes 6-9 are often published separately under the title History of the Lord of the Rings, and consist of various rough drafts spanning the many years devoted to the writing of this book. I personally found it fascinating.

Other volumes contain original drafts of the material that Christopher edited into the Silmarillion, as well as many essays on concepts presented in LotR and the Sil. My favorite in this category is Vol. 10, Morgoth's Ring, which has some intriguing essays on Elven life.

A good way to find out if this sort of thing is for you, is to get "Unfinished Tales", which is available in paperback or electronically. It also contains a lot of unpublished drafts and fragments, edited in a similar style to HoME. A lot of the sections in UT deal with background topics relevant to LotR. It includes essays on how the palantiri work and what the Istari really are, for example, as well as a lot of independent tales of life in Middle Earth.








(This post was edited by Elizabeth on Mar 1 2015, 5:22am)


noWizardme
Half-elven


Mar 1 2015, 12:17pm

Post #3 of 22 (2386 views)
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i agree with Elizabeth! And have another suggestion for giving it a try... [In reply to] Can't Post

I started at Vol 6, The Return Of The Shadow. This follows Tolkiens progress on writing The Fellowship of the Ring, up to a draft that stops in the mines of Moria.

On the one hand,I found it a fascinating insight into Tolkiens writing methods. It's also very interesting to see how different the story was in early drafts. On the other hand, I found that some of the dissection of which draft follows which was a bit too much detail for me personally. I do, however respect that it's an important kind of study . That's what's stopped me writing a parody of Christopher's steady complaints about how drafts were written in illegible pencil scribble, on the back of various kinds of scrap paper. (much of the book was written in wartime Britain, where paper was one of the many things citizens were encouraged to reuse).

Books 7-9 cover the rest of writing LOTR. Mostly those parts of the story seems to have been written with fewer changes of plan, so I found those volumes less interesting, personally speaking.

So one starting point might be to try vol 6, & see what you think?

~~~~~~

"nowimë I am in the West, Furincurunir to the Dwarves (or at least, to their best friend) and by other names in other lands. Mostly they just say 'Oh no it's him - look busy!' "
Or "Hold off! unhand me, grey-beard loon!"

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squire
Half-elven


Mar 1 2015, 12:57pm

Post #4 of 22 (2392 views)
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The "Book of Lost Tales" (HoME I & II) has its own attractions you might try [In reply to] Can't Post

The comments posted already, highlighting the connections between HoME vols. 6-9 and The Lord of the Rings, are good. Let me offer another suggestion.

You say you didn't like the writing style of The Silmarillion, and I can't say I don't know exactly what you mean. Now, if you open up the first two volumes of HoME, subtitled The Book of Lost Tales, you'll find the same stories told in a much riper, more picturesque, and almost "Victorian fairy tale" style. These are the original versions of the Silmarillion myths and legends, dating from the late 1910s, when Tolkien was still heavily influenced by William Morris and other earlier fairy-tale writers and fantasists. On the one hand it's kind of off-putting because it's so old-fashioned; on the other hand it's a lot livelier and more colorful -- the characters are more human, especially the Valar but also the Elves.

Tolkien deliberately abandoned this narrative style when he more or less rewrote most of the stories in the late 1920s and the 1930s, and the resulting Biblical or mythical "heigh style" (as he sort of joshingly called it later on) is what we read in the present Silmarillion. The Lord of the Rings is the success it is because Tolkien, with decades of experimentation behind him in his middle years, toned the Sil's heroic style down and combined it with the straightforward prose he had developed for The Hobbit.

Unfinished Tales is a very good introduction to Christopher Tolkien's editorial approach to his father's stories, but it is kind of a "Best Of" HoME, containing the most readable and engaging stories that CT found as he began opening a garage's worth of file boxes in the 1970s. UT only sort of prepares one for HoME's even more "unfinished" and scholarly footnoted format, but as a warming up exercise it's excellent. (Children of Hurin works because CT made a much more deliberate attempt to paste together various drafts into a completed tale than he ever did with the rest of HoME; I think he was trying to compete with the New Line films for the interest of his father's "book" fans!).



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Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Mar 1 2015, 4:06pm

Post #5 of 22 (2371 views)
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I recommend using your local library system! [In reply to] Can't Post

As has been pointed out, the HOME volumes document the development of Tolkien's Middle-earth. They are definitely not for everyone.

As someone who loves The Hobbit, I will recommend either (or both) The Annotated Hobbit with commentary by Douglas A. Anderson, or The History of The Hobbit by John D. Rateliff.

"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock


a.s.
Valinor


Mar 1 2015, 7:21pm

Post #6 of 22 (2350 views)
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I agree with, well, this and everybody! [In reply to] Can't Post

I am very much a LOTR fan, not enjoying in any real way any other Tolkien works EXCEPT AS they illuminate LOTR for me. This makes me somewhat the exception, I think, of long time Tolkien fans, but as far as general readers go, I think I'm in the majority. Some may not like to admit they don't enjoy the Sil or any other "heigh style" Tolkien writings because they feel like all the "serious" Tolkien fans all seem to enjoy everything Tolkien wrote and are reluctant to be counted among the "less than serious" Tolkien fan.


But I don't care: I don't like most of the Elven tales to begin with, and while I find the Genesis story of the Sil fascinating, I can't say the same for the writing, which I find stilted and, well, boring. YES BORING. Ok? lol.


I also prefer to read and think about and attempt to understand LOTR as it was published in the author's lifetime, as the author intended it to be or at minimum gave his consent to. The HOME books 6-9 are fascinating in a way, are a look at false starts and alternate plots in LOTR and if that interests you, those are the volumes I would start with.


I highly second the recommendation to check them out from the library first, though, see if you like them.


I own many Tolkien related books, and I only own four HOME books: the two Lost Tale books already mentioned, and volume 9 "Sauron Defeated" which covers the end of LOTR but more importantly (to me) includes the text of The Notion Club Papers, and then volume 10 only for the story "Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth" which is about elves and immortality and etc., and is quoted often enough that it piqued my interest. Also it contains "Laws and Customs among the Eldar" which is sort of interesting. :-) I confess freely I haven't read much of the rest of the book.


a.s.

"an seileachan"


"A safe fairyland is untrue to all worlds." JRR Tolkien, Letters.



balbo biggins
Rohan


Mar 1 2015, 11:30pm

Post #7 of 22 (2334 views)
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its ok [In reply to] Can't Post

its very good for completely confusing you! alot fo it is essentially like a wierd alternative reality of middle earth, of course these were unpublished for a reason and is more an interesting look into ow the storys developed from its first drafts.

unfinished tales is obviously what was found that can be considered 'official' middle earth lore', while HOME is rally just a look at tolkiens early draughts. it is interesting though. its for the very hardcore fans and booksmiths.


Elizabeth
Half-elven


Mar 2 2015, 12:00am

Post #8 of 22 (2329 views)
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Unfinished Tales is no more "official" than HoME [In reply to] Can't Post

...it's just some of the more finished drafts that Christopher found. Some amplify LotR, and some are in conflict with it, though in matters of detail rather than in major ways. The only unambiguously "official" Tolkien writings are those published in his lifetime, which includes LotR, The Hobbit, and several shorter works that are not part of the Middle Earth legendarium (but which are quite intriguing in their own right).








Elthir
Grey Havens

Mar 2 2015, 12:34am

Post #9 of 22 (2327 views)
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HME is not just early stuff... [In reply to] Can't Post

... but yes one has to wait until the later volumes of HME to get to the later stuff about the Elder Days (externally later), and even some "1968 or later" stuff.

To add to Elizabeth's list of author-published works related to Middle-earth (The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings): The Road Goes Ever On and The Adventures of Tom Bombadil.

There is also the Pauline Baynes map, which Tolkien helped with (added some details to), although apparently he wasn't entirely happy with the depiction of the characters above and below the map itself


balbo biggins
Rohan


Mar 2 2015, 1:40am

Post #10 of 22 (2320 views)
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but... [In reply to] Can't Post

thats why i put 'official middle earth lore' in quotations. but Unfinished tales i would say is considered a primary source or reliable canon information as much as the silmarillion is. where as HOME is something completely different. there are contradictions and discrepancies in the unfinished tales, but there are also many in the lotr and of course the hobbit which doesnt itself fit in with the lotr!

if anything only the LOTR can be considered the only true middle earth book, as the hobbit as we know was written before anything was set in stone and the rest are posthumously edited and possibly not by jrr tolkiens standards in there final releasable draughts.


(This post was edited by balbo biggins on Mar 2 2015, 1:45am)


HeWhoArisesinMight
Rivendell


Mar 2 2015, 1:46am

Post #11 of 22 (2319 views)
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Highly recommend all of them.... [In reply to] Can't Post

On my first read of the HOME series (and I read them when there were just three or four volumes and as they grew to 12), I was a bit baffled. I was like wtf LOL...

But I was much younger then. I cam across the Hobbit in 5th grade and LOTR in the sixth grade. I was so fascinated, I went into the HOME books, but at the time was too young to understand them. As others have noted, it is written in a very scholarly style with lots of footnotes. And there are a lot of redundancy in some of the books, as CT goes from Draft A to Draft B, and some of the drafts have minor changes.


Later, in high school, I started again with Book of Lost Tales and one of my favorites, the Lost Road. This opened up a new version of Tolkien to me. In the Lost Road, Tolkien is trying to connect his ancient tales to medieval Britain. I was really fascinated by this book. It made it more "real" to me. It gave Middle Earth an entirely new depth.


I will put it this way. If you are interested in the "inside of baseball" type knowledge of Tolkien, then HOME is for you. If you just like LOTR, the Hobbit and the films as they are, and don't care about a lot of the intricacies and the backstories, then I'd say don't worry. HOME can be a very difficult read. Other than Children of Hurin, most of the volumes contain massive amounts of notes and footnotes.

Nevertheless, you might find something that excites you. Other than the tale of Aelfwine, I was also fascinated by Telvido, Lord of Cats. Before there was Sauron, there was Telvido. It is worth digging through if you are willing to put in the time.

Might makes Right!


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Mar 2 2015, 4:07am

Post #12 of 22 (2311 views)
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I recommend HoMe for anyone who is interested in what Tolkien really wrote [In reply to] Can't Post

Short of actually examining the original manuscripts at the Bodleian Library at Oxford (and being able to actually decipher Tolkien's handwriting), reading HoMe is the closest that we can come to seeing what Tolkien really wrote about the First Age, since the published Silmarillion is an edited amalgamation cut and pasted from works published in HoMe (mostly in volumes 10 and 11, but a large amount comes from the earlier volumes as well, since Tolkien never revised some of the material that makes up the final chapters of the published work. It also contains some of his most profound philosophical thoughts, as well as some of the most interesting and most moving material that he ever wrote (particularly the Athrabeth, and the Wanderings of Hurin, neither of which can be found anywhere else).

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


sador
Half-elven


Mar 2 2015, 10:26am

Post #13 of 22 (2298 views)
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If you haven't enjoyed the Silmarillion [In reply to] Can't Post

I doubt you will enjoy HoME. It really isn't to everybody's taste (even if it is to mine).

However, I second Otaku-Sempai's recommendation to try the library, and Elizabeth's to begin with vol. VI. If you find you like it - great; but if you want to venture into volumes I-V or X-XI. I recommend you read the Silmarillion at least a couple of times more; both the presentation and Christopher Tolkien's commentary assume a certain level of familiarity with it.


Elthir
Grey Havens

Mar 2 2015, 5:58pm

Post #14 of 22 (2271 views)
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The Hobbit [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
if anything only the LOTR can be considered the only true middle earth book, as the hobbit as we know was written before anything was set in stone and the rest are posthumously edited and possibly not by jrr tolkiens standards in there final releasable draughts.



But even the first edition of The Hobbit was "ratified" by Tolkien as part of the original Red Book, explained as Bilbo's not quite so truthful version, but still Bilbo's version, and one still to be found in the original sources. Not to mention the second and third editions.

To me discrepancies or arguable contradictions in The Hobbit shouldn't matter, nor its known external history. Tom Bombadil started "outside" Middle-earth and ended up a character within it. Shrug. And The Hobbit greatly shaped the world of Middle-earth and gave the 'ring' to The Lord of the Rings.

And some might wonder about a troll who baked bread for Perry the Winkle (Adventures of Tom Bombadil). True or not, to me it doesn't matter much as far as this question goes: this troll is still from a poem supposed to be taken from the "original sources".

If this troll is Hobbit fancy then so be it, but the author considered the poem in which he "exists" and all versions of the Hobbit to ultimately hail from the Red Book or its copies, and published them all himself, ultimately within this conceit, for a once and future readership.

I guess by the "rest" you mean posthumously published texts, but of course The Hobbit was published (and revised twice in publication) by JRRT, along with The Lord of the Rings, The Road Goes Ever On and The Adventures of Tom Bombadil.


(This post was edited by Elthir on Mar 2 2015, 6:12pm)


Pandallo
Rivendell

Mar 3 2015, 11:38pm

Post #15 of 22 (2202 views)
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From what i've read of the History of the Lord of the Rings... [In reply to] Can't Post

If you're into video games have you ever poked your head around the internet to see what the original concept may have been, or what data from the beta is still in the program?

If so I would say that the History of Lord of the Rings (Vol. VI-X of HoME) is for you! I've read up to well over half of the first book and it is mesmerizing to see characters like Trotter, Odo, and Gandalf's extended travels laid out, and it also adds some interesting "what-if" possibilities. Trotter as the Ranger rather than Aragorn is a rather intriguing idea. While I do not doubt that Aragon was the better pick the Professor gave so much character to these characters that were eventually abandoned.

If you enjoy knowing what's going on "behind the scenes" then I would say this series is for you.


flyingfish98
The Shire

Mar 4 2015, 12:18pm

Post #16 of 22 (2179 views)
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If you enjoy poetry, the Lays of Beleriand is interesting [In reply to] Can't Post

I really enjoyed the story of Beren and Luthien cast in verse. I must admit, the HoME is something I tend to dip into every now and then, rather than read through.


swordwhale
Tol Eressea


Mar 5 2015, 3:29am

Post #17 of 22 (2164 views)
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I've plowed through (mumble mumble) some of them.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Much of it is a fascinating look at the creative process, of how Tolkien changed things over and over as he "found" middle Earth.

Some of it is (yaaaaawn) the sort of thing you put your foot on the pedal and speed through (you decide which bits). All of it is a worthy archive of Tolkien's fantastic mind children.

If you find yourself speeding through ALL of it, fear not, you still are likely a True Fan of Middle Earth.



I too have always thought of the Silmarillion (which I love for its vast mythos of Middle Earth, and for a good deal of Elvish history) as rather "Biblical" in style (would that it would become a film, so we could get the camera down out of the Heavens and in front of the Characters). The Hobbit is an oral faerie tale, LOTR is a fine narrative, and the Sil is just straight up Mythic.

Still amused that Strider was once called Trotter....

Na 'Aear, na 'Aear! Mýl 'lain nallol, I sûl ribiel a i falf 'loss reviol...
To the sea, to the sea, the white gulls are crying, the wind is blowing and the white foam is flying...





Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal


Mar 5 2015, 9:36pm

Post #18 of 22 (2136 views)
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It's lots of different things. [In reply to] Can't Post

Some of it is like the Sil. But you might enjoy, as I did, the rough drafts of LotR (Return of the Shadow, Treason of Isendgard, War of the Ring, and Sauron Defeated). Also you might like the Quest of Erebor in Unfinished Tales: it's a chapter that was taken out of LotR, where Gandalf explains his motivations for getting involved in Thorin's quest.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories

leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal


Mar 5 2015, 9:40pm

Post #19 of 22 (2134 views)
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Have you read some of his shorter stories? [In reply to] Can't Post

Things like Farmer Giles of Ham, and Smith of Wooton Major, and Leaf by Niggle aren't set in MIddle Earth, but they have a kind of hobbity flavor. Especially Farmer Giles.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories

leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Elizabeth
Half-elven


Mar 5 2015, 10:23pm

Post #20 of 22 (2130 views)
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Well worth reading. [In reply to] Can't Post

"Farmer Giles" is just delightful all the way through, with a memorably articulate dragon named Chrysophylax, who is sort of an anti-Smaug. It is said to be full of philogical in-jokes, but I don't know enough to get them!

"Leaf by Niggle" is an unabashed allegory, written at a time when Tolkien was struggling to finish LotR, sometimes fearing it would never be done. Viewed in that light, it's quite sad.








Brethil
Half-elven


Mar 7 2015, 1:02am

Post #21 of 22 (2097 views)
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HoME can be a great resource [In reply to] Can't Post

and a while back I took Squire's (I'm quite sure it was Squire - correct me if I am wrong, anyone) excellent advice to sort of 'follow' something or someone of interest through the volumes by hunting through the index. Then it's not piecemeal, or skipping about, but a more solid narrative thread about that one thing.








Philstar22
Registered User

May 5 2015, 9:21pm

Post #22 of 22 (1649 views)
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Maybe [In reply to] Can't Post

Personally I preferred the Unfinished Tales to the Histories. The first two volumes of the Histories, the Lost Tales, are hard to get through and are some of the more out there versions of stories. I did enjoy some of the other Histories.

However, I loved the Silmarillion. My favorite Tolkien characters are all from the Silmarillion. Parts of it were hard to get through, but it was well worth it.

I'd say if you wanted to, read some of the Histories that are about the events of the Hobbit and LOTR. They are going to read a lot like the Silmarillion in terms of being like history textbooks in a lot of ways. However, you'll get some great background material.

 
 

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