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Magpie
Immortal
Mar 1 2015, 12:34am
Post #51 of 92
(2758 views)
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was a prologue to an hour long radio program about online behavior.
Act One dealt with a person who made it his avocation to be very evil to people with an online presence. In the end, the troll and the victim met for a conversation.
Act Two is about complaints about vocal fry in women in broadcasting and whether there's a bit of misogyny going on.
Act Three was about online reactions to some alarming behavior in wildlife being documented by a 'nest cam'. Pick someone to blame and then make their life miserable.
Act Four - how one person used the 'internet' to spew bile at himself in an effort to desensitize him.
I almost wanted to post a link to this program for the Act One story.
Here's the link again.
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/...y-say-it-in-all-caps
One can find a transcript but I think these stories benefit from the audio - these are storytellers and voice is their tool.
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Starling
Half-elven
Mar 1 2015, 12:40am
Post #52 of 92
(2761 views)
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My brain hurts. 
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Starling
Half-elven
Mar 1 2015, 12:42am
Post #53 of 92
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Thanks for reposting it - I missed it further up the thread. I agree with you about needing the audio.
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Brethil
Half-elven
Mar 1 2015, 12:45am
Post #54 of 92
(2762 views)
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Magpie
Immortal
Mar 1 2015, 12:55am
Post #55 of 92
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It works really well to do this in real time with Photoshop.
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I can understand why the images aren't working so well but it is almost magical when one can move the square where ever you like.
I think the shadow of the object standing on the board. Our mind compensates for it in a rational sense. We see the shadow on part of the board and we adjust our expectation. The stuff in shadow must be lighter than it appears because the shadow is making it darker.
But the exercise isn't asking for people to say what the colors should be without the shadow. It's asking what color it actually is in that photo.
When one starts to strip away the perceived effect of the shadow, it's easier (I think) to see the actual colors.
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zarabia
Tol Eressea
Mar 1 2015, 1:17am
Post #56 of 92
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I find this utterly fascinating, because I've sat side-by-side with someone at the same monitor and they see black where I see gold. Changing positions doesn't change it. It really is a different perception.
Here's something I wrote up for facebook:
Here's what I'm starting to find really fascinating about the whole "dress" thing: people's reactions to it. Each time a scientific article appears on it, the comments fill up with things like "can we just drop this stupid thing now?" "Who cares?"
My hypothesis: this is a fundamentalist reaction. Fundamentalism (religious, political, etc.) sees a question as having one right answer. But there's no right answer to the dress question (I understand that the original dress is blue and black. I'm talking about the photograph. Two people looking at the same photograph on the same screen will see two radically different things).
What's so interesting about it is that it points out vividly that we really do perceive the same thing in different ways. People who are invested in being "right" (I'm not immune from that, believe me) find it disturbing and want it to go away. Other people find it fascinating. I understand that to some people broccoli tastes bitter, but to me it tastes sweet. It's not a matter of being right or wrong.
And it's not about the dress. I have no interest in fashion, so that's not the source of my fascination.
And on a meta level, I now seem to be invested in getting people to understand my point of view on the whole thing :-D
Some of the people, not all, but some of the people who complain that it's a silly waste of time just have little intellectual curiosity. It's fascinating how perception works. Usually after I understand how different optical illusions work, I can see both versions. But with this dress, no matter how many explanations I read, no matter that I've seen the dress in unambiguous lighting where it's obvious that it's blue and black, when I look at the picture I see white and gold. The brain is a crazy, magnificent structure. 
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Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal
Mar 1 2015, 1:30am
Post #57 of 92
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I'm so glad to find that link.
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I heard Act IV on the radio and was never able to find it again. So thank you!
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Brethil
Half-elven
Mar 1 2015, 1:45am
Post #58 of 92
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I agree with Silverlode. I must be a *very* contextual seer.
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I failed to 'get' this until you took the grid apart.
In your second bit, when you deconstruct the grid, if I look at the B square from left to right (with left having the same background color/context, and the middle having a darker square next to it, and then the third with full contrasts around it) it actually seems to change color. It actually gets lighter as I travel right.
But if I cover the entire center of the deconstructed portions, leaving only A and B, and NO context except the shared white background: I finally see it. Then A and B are the same. Until I uncover it, and I see context/contrast and BOOM, B is almost instantly ten shades lighter. No matter how hard I will myself, it does not stay the same color. If we were in many centuries ago in say.... Massachusetts, I am guessing someone might be burnt at the stake for this sort of thing. 
The broadcast was interesting and disturbing. That seeking of ownership and control of what we see and hear...in some ways the heart of internet trolling? (So the only sure NON-troll would be...Tom Bombadil?) And maybe its because I am female, but I still don't know what 'vocal fry' is. I can't recognize what they are referring to. I can understand a vocal thing being aberrant - like Tom Brokaw's choked, throaty L's - but I'm not entirely sure I know what they are identifying. Which could just be a female bias in NOT hearing it? I suppose so.
I'm glad Cats posted this and got it started, and for your and everyone's contributions on this, M. What a great discussion.
(Adding: but those squares still look so different on the intact board.  )
(This post was edited by Brethil on Mar 1 2015, 1:51am)
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Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal
Mar 1 2015, 2:09am
Post #60 of 92
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I do understand that some people just aren't interested.
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But I'm not sure they're the ones getting so annoyed online about it.
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zarabia
Tol Eressea
Mar 1 2015, 2:15am
Post #61 of 92
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I was agreeing with you. But my point got lost.  Sorry, my brain's not working well right now but not because of the dress.
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Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal
Mar 1 2015, 3:28am
Post #62 of 92
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You made your point well. I just didn't want to label people who aren't interested as being anti-science or something.
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Starling
Half-elven
Mar 1 2015, 4:47am
Post #63 of 92
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I have listened to all of it now, a couple of thoughts
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The first part made me think of think of Charlotte Dawson, who was the subject of merciless trolling and bullying, which only seemed to grow when she exposed her real and vulnerable self. Sadly, her troll confrontation ended very differently.
The thing about vocal fry was interesting. I have definitely noticed it, in men as well as in women. I can't find the link now, but I heard a linguist here say they always look to young women to understand vocal changes and language shifts. I have posted about some of these language shifts before, because some of them bother me, but it is a generational change, and I just need to accept that it is happening.
I felt so sad for that poor man in the osprey story who was simply trying to continue the work of a friend he was grieving for.
I wasn't aware of this site and I have bookmarked it for future reference, thanks. :-)
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Magpie
Immortal
Mar 1 2015, 5:19am
Post #65 of 92
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...is a regular radio program run on public radio stations in the US. It's basically a story telling format and all the stories are true (it's not fiction stories). There is a general theme that the stories fall into.
It's one of the radio programs that run on the weekend here and I'm always happy to listen when I'm out running errands or on a road trip with the Mister. One time, I was sitting in my car in a parking lot listening to the last bit of a story before I got out to go into the store.
As the story finished, I turned the key off and opened the door at EXACTLY the same time as the woman in the car next to me. I laughed and said, 'Were you listening to The American Life?' and she seemed baffled but said, yes.. she was.
That story of the woman was playing while I was out and I came into the house to finish listening to it online. I think what that program did for me was put a really sad face on 'the troll'. They can infuriate us but they are really just sad, sad people.
Geek point: Ira Glass, the host of TAL, is cousin to Phillip Glass and I've recognized Phillip's music on the show at times.
Other radio programs that I really enjoy listening to on public radio:
Radio Lab - a radio show and podcast weaving stories and science into sound and music-rich documentaries. They've had some fascinating programs. This segment, Lying to Ourselves pretty much described and explained my life.
Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me - is a topical humor quiz format show that might not translate across the ocean. You'd have to try it out if interested.
Ask Me Another features puzzles, word games and trivia played in front of a live audience.
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Starling
Half-elven
Mar 1 2015, 6:16am
Post #66 of 92
(2704 views)
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We have some good things to listen to on Radio New Zealand, but there is only a limited amount they can offer. I listen to BBC radio programmes sometimes when I have the chance.
I will check out those other links you provided, thanks.
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Ciars
Rohan
Mar 1 2015, 11:52am
Post #67 of 92
(2713 views)
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Almost a light purple really than a blue!
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cats16
Half-elven
Mar 2 2015, 4:42am
Post #68 of 92
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Thanks for sharing.
I'll second Brethil in thanking everyone for their thoughts on this. This has by far been the most illuminating discussion on this topic that I've seen online. Not shocking for TORNsibs.
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Starling
Half-elven
Mar 2 2015, 5:16am
Post #69 of 92
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told me that there have been relationship breakups over the dress. I don't know if that is true or not, but it certainly made some people very grumpy.
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cats16
Half-elven
Mar 2 2015, 5:24am
Post #70 of 92
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It definitely took over my newsfeed for the weekend, but I can't imagine it affecting a relationship that much. Hope it was a joke, after all!
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Silverlode
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Mar 2 2015, 7:33am
Post #71 of 92
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is a revealer of character and attitudes, not a cause in itself. There are lots of people who don't know how to deal with an irreconcilable difference of opinion or perception except by refusing or rejecting the person who holds it. If anyone really broke up over the dress, I suspect some other cause for debate would have come along sooner or later to flip the same switch. If you can't deal with arguing about something that doesn't really matter, how can you cope when it's really important?
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dernwyn
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Mar 2 2015, 1:38pm
Post #72 of 92
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Adds another *mods up* - Thank you for this!
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I'd first seen this, or something very close to it, in a magazine of my Dad's a couple of years ago.
It's a fascinating look into how the eyes work!
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Ethel Duath
Half-elven
Mar 2 2015, 4:40pm
Post #74 of 92
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and his boots are black/green/teal.
As for your footer, I believe Leonard is dancing in his grave.
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swordwhale
Tol Eressea
Mar 3 2015, 5:34pm
Post #75 of 92
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I kept seeing takeoffs on it on tumblr and going  waht?!?!?!?
(best one was Kirk and Spock as the only blue and gold that matters today)
Finally had to google the pic.
The technical hooplah around it was hilarious; how computers show things, how we see things, blah blah blah.
My instant impression is "of course it's white and gold, in shadow, with a brightly lit background, so it looks blueish, but it's white in shadow." If you stand up and look at it from the top of my screen, it morphs into blue and black. It could be a light blue with goldish/tannish/brownish trim; sort of light burnt sienna.
I've seen a number of art tutorials on color in which you make an assumption, looking at a picture, that spot a and spot b are different colors, then you isolate those spots and put them next to each other and they are the same. It's the colors around them that fool your eye.
A clever thing to do in an art class is to make a pinhole in a piece of paper (paper punch sized hole) and have people look through that and see the real color of a particular spot. Not the color they think it is (surrounded by other colors).
There is also a tendency for art students to paint things the color they THINK something is, the color their brain says it should be: apples are red, horses are brown, rivers are blue. (apples come in a wide variety of shades.. horses have a gene for red and one for black, and those combine, with dilution modifiers and white patterns to create a rainbow of bay, chestnut, dun, buckskin, palomino, cremello, perlino, champagnes, blacks, pearls, grey, leopard complex, pintos, brindle, grulla, sabino, manchado, metallics (Akhal Teke), and we're not even getting into zebra hybrids...).
I had a lovely lady, in an outdoor watercolor class, who painted her river blue. We were sitting on the top of a hill, overlooking the Susquehanna River on a silver-pewter hazy day. The sky was silver, the water was pewter/silver, the distant hills were shades of hazy greys and bluish greens. Her river was blue because that's what her brain said water should be.
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Wherza Tylenol???????? //
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