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frodolives
Lorien
Feb 28 2015, 4:12pm
Post #1 of 27
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Fascinating quotes by Guillermo del Toro
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Some of these quotes break my heart. I'm not saying his version would have been better, but it sure sounds like it would have been great! He makes it clear that the Hobbit would be one film, with a second film acting as a 'bridge' between The Hobbit and LOTR, perhaps dealing with the white council and Dol Guldur.
Here are some quotes he made before leaving the project:
I plan to mix CGI and PHYSICAL in such a way that your eye wonders which is which- keep you mind busy but NEVER allowing for the weaknesses of either tool to take over. Yes, I have, by trial and error, learned that both tools need to be mixed and how much they must be mixed to succeed in creating environments and living creatures. WETA is the lead house, absolutely but we will expand the creature team and beef up the prosthetics team. Imagine a physical creature with a radio controlled muscle / facial system but with partial CGI replacement on the head or mouth, etc and you'll start to get the idea...
I hope that Mirkwood can be pretty scary but not graphic, I hope Riddles in the dark has an element of fear and suspense and to be deeply atmospheric but still allow the ingenious, engaging contest to take place. And Smaug should be all shock and awe when he unleashes his anger so, it will be pretty intense but not gorey.
(asked whether Gandalf will disappear for long stretches as in the book) I believe that Gandalf is meant to be used in that way- coming and going in and out of the narrative. If anything, this creates the perfect setting for those "gaps" to be bridged by the second film...
The idea is to find a compelling way to join The Hobbit and FELLOWSHIP and enhance the 5 films both visually an in their Cosmology. There's omissions and material enough in the available, licensed material to attempt this. The agreement is, however, that the second film must be relevant and emotionally strong enough to be brought to life but that we must try and contain The Hobbit in a single film.
…it is my intention, for now, to shoot this on film, not HD.
I adore physical miniatures and try to use them as much as I can and have a bit of a fetish about that. Matte Paintings and "Big-atures" will definetly be in these.
Tolkien wrote 13 dwarves and I intend to use 13 dwarves. I am, in fact, thrilled to keep them all and have them be distinguishable and affecting as characters. Much of the drama and emotion in the last third of the book and film will come from them.
Obviously, at this stage, the second film is still being figured out- so the actors that have been approached may or not have appeared in The Hobbit as a literary work but still may appear in the second film as it "blends" into the Trilogy and expands. Therefore what can be said is: Unequivocally, every single actor that originated a role in the Trilogy will be asked to participate and reprise it. If Health, availability or willigness become obstacles - and only in that case recasting would be considered.
I would kill to tackle Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser
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balbo biggins
Rohan
Feb 28 2015, 4:38pm
Post #2 of 27
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we lost a great deal whem gdt left. this sounds perfect.
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dormouse
Half-elven
Feb 28 2015, 4:53pm
Post #3 of 27
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Yes, they are interesting......
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...but I think they only represent an early stage in the process. Guillermo del Toro was still directing when all idea of keeping The Hobbit itself down to one film was abandoned. I remember him posting on here about how he wrote down the main beats of the story on cards and realised that it was too much for one film - that was when the idea of the bridge film was abandoned.
Here's his post - 'A few random thoughts' - from a thread of June 2009 in which the OP expressed concern that a small book which (he reckoned) could be dealt with in one film was now being stretched to two films. there were a number of replies, this was Guillermo's.
So whatever his version of The Hobbit might have been like, it would have taken two films and there would not have been a bridge film, because he had given up on that idea himself.
"Take a look at the animated Hobbit film and how much textural and dramatic material gets condensed or thrown out (Beorn for one) and you'll understand that "fitting it all" into a single film is quite impossible."
Another line I found interiguing in his post:
"I can only repeat what I've mentioned in the past: Nothing in my previous work indicates what I plan to do or what I will do with these films."
(I hope I've got the link right: in case I haven't, here's the thread and Guillermo's post is on page 2. http://newboards.theonering.net/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25;
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor
Feb 28 2015, 4:57pm
Post #4 of 27
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Stop confusing the issue with facts
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Nasty things, facts. Makes you late for dinner!
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
The Hall of Fire
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dormouse
Half-elven
Feb 28 2015, 4:59pm
Post #5 of 27
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*Ducks back into teapot*
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Kirly
Lorien
Feb 28 2015, 5:01pm
Post #6 of 27
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I haven't engaged much on the one film topic, but I never thought a single film would be long enough to show the whole adventure, nor to get us all emotionally invested in Bilbo and The Dwarves - especially the three Royals - to have that devastation needed when they (Thorin, Fili, Kili) are killed. Not to mention the introduction of Thranduil and his realm, nor Bard & Laketown - we had to get to know this "world of men" to care when Smaug destroys it.
My avatar photo is Lake Tekapo in New Zealand's South Island. Taken by me in 2004 on a Red Carpet Tours LOTR Movie Location Tour. 'Twas the Vacation of a Lifetime!
pictures taken while on the tour are here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/Kirly7/LOTRNewZealandTour#
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor
Feb 28 2015, 5:10pm
Post #7 of 27
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I might need to visit!
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
The Hall of Fire
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frodolives
Lorien
Feb 28 2015, 5:12pm
Post #8 of 27
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GDT deciding that two films would work better for the book makes me want to see his version that much more. I don't see anything that contradicts his other quotes about animatronics and practical effects and such. One thing I do remember reading is that he toyed with the idea of having Thorin wear a helmet with antlers on it. I also read that his Smaug design looked like a giant flying 'battle-axe.'
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Pandallo
Rivendell
Feb 28 2015, 5:14pm
Post #9 of 27
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He left because the project as he envisioned was unattainable. Also let's not forget the bizarre mentions of Frodo's parents as character castings and the "young elf lord" who may have accompanied the party in which proto-Tauriel falls head-over-heels for.
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frodolives
Lorien
Feb 28 2015, 5:32pm
Post #10 of 27
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let's not forget the bizarre mentions of Frodo's parents as character castings and the "young elf lord" who may have accompanied the party in which proto-Tauriel falls head-over-heels for. I hadn't heard that stuff. Any link to it?
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Feb 28 2015, 5:45pm
Post #11 of 27
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None of this convinces me that what del toro might have produced would have been 'better' than PJ's work. I happen to think PJ is a better director anyway (IMHO).
The only things PJ went astray with, IMHO, is with Legolas, Tauriel, gross moments, too little Beorn and lack of closure at the end of BoFA. Otherwise I love these films, and the pros far outweigh the cons for me, apart from, perhaps, in the case of DoS, my least favourite of the films.
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xxxyyy
Rohan
Feb 28 2015, 6:01pm
Post #13 of 27
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I, too, like a certain lead singer and rhythm guitarist, believe virtually everything I read...
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and, oh my God, that would have been an awful movie... and I'm not sarcastic now.
(This post was edited by xxxyyy on Feb 28 2015, 6:03pm)
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QuackingTroll
Valinor
Feb 28 2015, 6:05pm
Post #14 of 27
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He left because of legal issues...
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The films got delayed by another year because of legal issues and del Toro had other plans to move on to.
I think Drogo and Primula would have been really cool to see as a short flashback and there's no evidence that Tauriel/Itarl was going to accompany the party. The idea of her falling in love with an elf lord sounds much better than her falling in love with dwarf 
Del Toro really spoke about The Hobbit with such a genuine passion, I have no doubt his films would have been fascinating, imaginative and respectful to the source: http://youtu.be/UQA0FYU64wo He even used to visit and post on these boards!
PJ on the other hand never seems to display such interest in The Hobbit (book) and tries, instead, to relate his interests and the films to The Lord of the Rings. He doesn't seem to want to accept that they're two very different books: http://youtu.be/5Q51QDWz50g
(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Feb 28 2015, 6:09pm)
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frodolives
Lorien
Feb 28 2015, 6:10pm
Post #15 of 27
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Are you suggesting the quotes I posted aren't by GDT?
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SafeUnderHill
Rohan
Feb 28 2015, 7:20pm
Post #16 of 27
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we lost a great deal whem gdt left. this sounds perfect.
These were his early plans.
Even with PJ, he planned to use Miniatures and prosthetics significantly. We know Azog, Bolg and the Golbins were filmed on set with costumes.
In fact, they starting building miniatures for PJ's Hobbit but stopped when they decided to go digital. They had built half of the Rivendell Miniature (according to the AUJ commentary).
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balbo biggins
Rohan
Feb 28 2015, 7:27pm
Post #17 of 27
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we lost a great deal whem gdt left. this sounds perfect. These were his early plans. Even with PJ, he planned to use Miniatures and prosthetics significantly. We know Azog, Bolg and the Golbins were filmed on set with costumes. In fact, they starting building miniatures for PJ's Hobbit but stopped when they decided to go digital. They had built half of the Rivendell Miniature (according to the AUJ commentary).
yeah i know, but we did lose something, and it does still sound perfect.
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haarp
Rivendell
Feb 28 2015, 8:11pm
Post #18 of 27
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it sounds like the complete opposite of PJ, instead of relying on fancy HD and CGI gimmicks to sell the film, DT understood there is a limit between too much CGI and ignoring miniatures
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Kirly
Lorien
Mar 1 2015, 5:20am
Post #20 of 27
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My avatar photo is Lake Tekapo in New Zealand's South Island. Taken by me in 2004 on a Red Carpet Tours LOTR Movie Location Tour. 'Twas the Vacation of a Lifetime!
pictures taken while on the tour are here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/Kirly7/LOTRNewZealandTour#
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glor
Rohan
Mar 1 2015, 11:31am
Post #21 of 27
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GDT's enthusiasm seemed less than genuine to me
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Before Del Toro was signed on to The Hobbit he publicly expressed how much he hated fantasy.
That tune changed when he was offered the chance to direct a career changing film that would come with a significant pay check and, had to do some back tracking, again publicly, on his previous negative comments on the fantasy genre. It should be noted he never claimed those pre-Hobbit comments were misquoted, taken out of context or lies.
The only enthusiasm that seemed genuine when GDT was talking about The Hobbit was about creating the monsters, costumes and visual effects, I never got any sense that he understood the material, or Tolkien's middle earth, he could have been talking about a second rate comic book.
Ironically, these factors do not necessarily result in bad films, in fact the opposite can equally be true. However, personally, GDT recent output has either been badly acted horror or Michael Bay with a more creative visual aesthetic, and as such I am really glad he wasn't let loose on The Hobbit.
Ones perspective on GDT is very much informed by whether one regards GDT as a directorial genius who has yet to demonstrate his full potential via a body of work, or a film maker whose one genuinely good film was a fluke, and that's a subjective judgement. This is why his version of The Hobbit and his enthusiasm/quotes around the project and fantasy often polarise people on this board
No mascara can survive BOTFA
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squiggle
Rivendell
Mar 1 2015, 12:03pm
Post #22 of 27
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PJ film making team of Hobbitt ees thus far couldn't be better to me
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So yeah  hehe
I do think PJ film making team is/was at top of game for Hobbit trilogy & the trilogy has things going for it that are unlikely to be pulled off again in the way it has, which may be why also there is more confusion about it's type of watch.
From what i've seen of GDT has been fun & have liked but i'm glad it happend as it has.
One thing or quality in PJ's films maybe, which i like, is that the films themselves tend to be very dependent on the Actors, it's said about being a actor's Director's or not to varying degrees sometimes about film makers, for me, PJ's stuff is more as being an actor's film maker. I think the material really get's elevated & formed by the casting and 'Balance' of actors, or not, in his films in a way that is significant. There is less of a Middle (eghh)...ground, which for me makes when it's all pretty harmonious to the film, an extra enjoyment or elevation about it.
I find King Kong, ee, better as an overall film than the last two LoTRs were, & the two Hobbit ees have been middle earth to me the way FoTR was also, so that's pretty excellent 
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Kirly
Lorien
Mar 1 2015, 1:32pm
Post #23 of 27
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My avatar photo is Lake Tekapo in New Zealand's South Island. Taken by me in 2004 on a Red Carpet Tours LOTR Movie Location Tour. 'Twas the Vacation of a Lifetime!
pictures taken while on the tour are here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/Kirly7/LOTRNewZealandTour#
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Mar 1 2015, 1:43pm
Post #24 of 27
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Thirded – re. Glor's post, and Squiggle's post as well!
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(This post was edited by Glorfindela on Mar 1 2015, 1:44pm)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Mar 1 2015, 4:18pm
Post #25 of 27
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GdT has never hated fantasy, pe se.
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Before Del Toro was signed on to The Hobbit he publicly expressed how much he hated fantasy.
Guillermo del Toro's fimography puts the lie to the above statement. It might be more true to say that he dislikes certain types of fantasy. Certainly del Toro has stated his admiration for Fritz Leiber's Fafhrd and Gray Mouser and I would love to see him put that sword-and-sorcery series on film.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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Perhaps he should be asked to do a fan edit?
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