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Milieuterrien
Rohan
Feb 25 2015, 7:42pm
Post #1 of 41
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Glowing Tauriel
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When in theater I saw this less-than-academic moment gone iconic since for Hobbit's haters, I admit I had my own gulp-in-throat then. Come on ! It has already been done, and better, in the Fellowship ! How dare you spoil that with a copygoat ?
Then after about one year of grumbling, I finally got the answer in DOS EE appendices, told by P Boyens. Most probably very few people ever heard about it, so let's have a little insight there.
The culprit is basic : 'Tauriel glows because that's how people coming from the other side happen to see elves in such circumstances'. No more, no less. The same thing happened to Frodo AND Kili.
So what ?
What I like there is that if Kili would have not been saved by Tauriel, nobody would have known or remembered Tolkien wrote that those things happen. Because nobody asked why Arwen glowed when she saved Frodo. Viewers and fans alike went over that, just thinking that Arwen did just glow because she was an Elf, end of the line. But so, they ignored that that was not the case : Arwen glowed because Frodo was out in the dark at this moment.
So, what we have there is a late but welcome recall of a detail nobody noticed in FOTR.
Let's then come again to the scenery : what we see is Kili seing Tauriel glowing. The strange thing is this has no majesty. Tauriel is speaking elvish, she is stressed, fearing to lose that little dwarf, concentrated on her correct spelling and nothing more.
Nothing more ? But that's precisely how that scene had to be shot !!!
Yes, yes, yes, absolutely : look again, now, at the scene shot in FOTR, that very scene everybody loved (because Liv Tyler was ethereal). In FOTR the scene was simply wrong ! Frodo couldn't see Arwen glowing because he wasn't cured yet when he met her ! He could only see Elrond glowing when he was, which he did.
So if there is a mistake in the movies, the mistake was not in DOS with Tauriel, but in FOTR with Arwen.
Isn't it exciting to think about that one scene that so many people hate ?
Now I've understood that, I can jiggle in my corner, playing with this hidden treasure I've found.
(This post was edited by Milieuterrien on Feb 25 2015, 7:48pm)
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Bofur01
Lorien
Feb 25 2015, 7:54pm
Post #2 of 41
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She's still a Silvan elf, though.
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So she still shouldn't glow, IIRC.
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Thrain II
Lorien
Feb 25 2015, 7:57pm
Post #3 of 41
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yes, there is a mistake in both movies, in FOTR instead of Arwen there should be Glorfindel, and in DOS there shouldn't be Tauriel at all! 
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Milieuterrien
Rohan
Feb 25 2015, 7:57pm
Post #4 of 41
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All elves glow around Bilbo when he wears the Ring
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Are you meaning that most of them shouldn't ?
(This post was edited by Milieuterrien on Feb 25 2015, 7:58pm)
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Bofur01
Lorien
Feb 25 2015, 8:01pm
Post #5 of 41
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She's a Silvan elf, so doesn't have a presence in the unseen plane, I believe.
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Milieuterrien
Rohan
Feb 25 2015, 8:04pm
Post #6 of 41
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So you are affirmative when you believe
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... better saying, then
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Bofur01
Lorien
Feb 25 2015, 8:06pm
Post #7 of 41
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Well, I can't remember for certain...
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But I think I'm right 
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Milieuterrien
Rohan
Feb 25 2015, 8:09pm
Post #8 of 41
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So let's call for the scholars
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That's what forums are all about 
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Feb 25 2015, 9:45pm
Post #9 of 41
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She's a Silvan elf, so doesn't have a presence in the unseen plane, I believe.
Tolkien indicated that the Silvan Elves of Mirkwood were among the Teleri who took part in the Great Journey, making them no less Eldar than the Sindar. If a mortal was close to death, I can imagine him/her being able to perceive the spiritual aura of any Eldar.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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BlackFox
Half-elven
Feb 25 2015, 10:13pm
Post #10 of 41
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... there is nothing contradicting it in the movieverse.
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Feb 25 2015, 10:27pm
Post #11 of 41
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And say that adaptations are about outputs not inputs, about response not replication, about novelty of thought not nostalgia and are certainly not some pedestrian game of snap?
Liberty awaits......
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Milieuterrien
Rohan
Feb 25 2015, 10:52pm
Post #12 of 41
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The DOS glowing Tauriel scene 'adds' a character but respects the canon of glowing and gets it right out of the appendices.
IMO we could even say that Tauriel's character is being 'specified' instead of being 'added', for many elves lived around Thranduil and Thranduil himself hadn't been named by Tolkien in the book - he found his name later on : if you imagine Tolkien re-writing his Bilbo 'à la' LOTR, would you think he would have let Thranduil stay alone in his halls ? But as the professor stepped away from his project, any character PJ and co would have written would have been 'false'.. as well as true.
The main fact is that the glowing Arwen scene didn't respect the canon as well as glowing Tauriel did (There had even been a shift between Arwen and Glorfindel).
So why so much cringe about glowing Tauriel and so few about glowing Arwen ? The 'first' one was stepping into the right direction.
For myself I end liking the oddity of this glowing coming out of a skirmish. It's not very often in history of storytelling that we get such strange 'love at first glow', ending that way after pushing its way like a mushroom.
(This post was edited by Milieuterrien on Feb 25 2015, 10:53pm)
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dormouse
Half-elven
Feb 25 2015, 11:22pm
Post #13 of 41
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I like your enthusiasm. And finding hidden treasure is a good feeling, isn't it?
You've thought through the film story, found an interesting, plausible, Tolkien-inspired reason for a scene that has caused so much wailing and gnashing of teeth... I like it
So enjoy your treasure and good luck to you! :-)
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Milieuterrien
Rohan
Feb 25 2015, 11:28pm
Post #14 of 41
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I may indeed plan to keep that treasure safe and then share it with the actress, who has suffered so much injustice you know. 
In my magnanimity I let the haters go their way 
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The Grey Wanderer
Lorien
Feb 26 2015, 12:23am
Post #15 of 41
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One does not have to dig too deep...
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In "Many Meetings" in the FotR book, we are first introduced to glowing elves ; Frodo on the far side of the ford looking back at the Wraiths recalls a "white figure that shown and did not grow dim like the others." And Gandalf tells him that "you saw him...as he is upon the other side: one of the mighty of the First-born...." All elves are of the First-born & it would follow that those fading under a Morgul spell (like Frodo and movie Kili) would see any First-born glowing when exerting their power.
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Morthoron
Gondor
Feb 26 2015, 4:42am
Post #16 of 41
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What Gandalf was alluding to was Glorfindel having been to Valinor ("upon the other side" referring to the Blessed Realm). All elves are not Eldar and all are not "First-born" and those that did not go to Valinor do not have the same innate power as those who resided on the far shore. So, neither Arwen nor Tauriel should have glowed, and as a matter of fact, Arwen had no such ability to call down the river upon the Nazgul at the Ford of Bruinen. That was Elrond and his Ring (with the equine artwork provided by Gandalf, another Ring-bearer ).
Please visit my blog...The Dark Elf File...a slighty skewed journal of music and literary comment, fan-fiction and interminable essays.
(This post was edited by Morthoron on Feb 26 2015, 4:42am)
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Girdle of Melian
Lorien
Feb 26 2015, 9:20am
Post #17 of 41
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When Galadriel healed Gandalf, all we got was "an echo" sound and a kiss...lol, but then again, we got OTT Nuclear Galadriel....
Arwen and Tauriel, let them glow...lol
GOM
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Tinne
The Shire
Feb 26 2015, 10:28am
Post #18 of 41
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I think that glow is only what the injured person (Frodo and Kili) sees ..
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jtarkey
Rohan
Feb 26 2015, 12:43pm
Post #19 of 41
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Ha! find any reason that pleases you to justify a terribly executed scene
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Don't get me wrong, the reasoning here makes sense. Kili seeing a glowing Tauriel makes sense.
However, it was just filmed horribly. Its laugh inducing, awkward, and reminds me of something out of a soft core porno.
Its just horrible. Not the concept, but the execution. This is a point people forget all too often.
"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"
^^^ That unnecessary apostrophe and "e" is due to the leaf itself. And this part of the signature was documented quite some time after the effect had worn off.
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Bofur01
Lorien
Feb 26 2015, 1:45pm
Post #21 of 41
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Gandalf has a presence on the unseen plane, too.
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So it doesn't apply to him.
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Eleniel
Tol Eressea
Feb 26 2015, 1:58pm
Post #22 of 41
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So if I have it right, the issue is that not only should neither Arwen or Tauriel have glowed, because neither had been to Valinor and experienced the light of the Two Trees, but also that Frodo could see Glorfindel glowing because he was fading into the "Wraith" world at that point, whilst there is no mention inn the movie of whether Kili, was fading as a result of his wound, only supposition by association...
"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort
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Milieuterrien
Rohan
Feb 26 2015, 2:50pm
Post #23 of 41
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"Terribly executed" ? Come on....
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That scene is not randomly shown that way.
Tauriel is not glowing in front of everybody (there are many other people there : Fili, Bofur & Oin, Bard's daughters), so the camera could only show Tauriel from Kili's point of view, because he his the only one who can see her that way. How and where else would you shoot such a scene ?
It's short but clever. The slight disturbance for the viewer comes from the weirdness of the scene, but mostly from its misunderstanding... by contrast to the habit of a Hobbit gorgeously filmed everywhere else. This one is gorgeous too, but you have to understand the meaning of it before feeling the gorgeousness.
The fact is when you're a tiny fellow (such as Kili) lying with the head upon a bunch of nuts, you are not a master photographer chosing his angles. This scene is as realistic as it could be, and as it should be. Tauriel also is not flirtatious, she isn't smiling or anything else, for she's only trying to cure a very bad wound the way she would do if she had to cure a wounded elf soldier. Even Kili is not flirtatious the way he was in his cell : he's just astonished by the glow.
Rip off the glow, your rip off the special link between Kili and Tauriel. Accidently, both met exactly at a shift of planes where no elves nor dwarves have ever met before. That scene is a really thoughtful insight into whole Tolkien's universe, a door opened to speculation... just before being cut off by Kili's death further in the story. That is also explaining why Tauriel gets so much devastated in the end that Thranduil recognizes in her his own suffering.
You may decide for yourselves that only Sindars glow, and lesser elves neverglow.
PJ and Philippa and Fran decided that the lesser elves do glow :
Who would blame them for their choice, mmh ? 
(This post was edited by Milieuterrien on Feb 26 2015, 3:04pm)
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marary
Lorien
Feb 26 2015, 4:20pm
Post #24 of 41
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In my headcanon, I chalked Tauriel and Arwen's glowing up to very special type of pain-induced hallucination rather than an Eldar/other plane type of explanation. Makes it easier to digest, sit back, and enjoy Liv Tyler turn into an ethereal fairy.
In Kili's case, it actually made a lot of sense, even if it played a bit awkward and cheesy. Consider Kili's experience: he's in the worst pain of his life, it seems like he's barely conscious at that point. Then this elf girl he has a crush on shows up as his "knight in shining armor" to heal him. At that moment, she's the most wonderful thing he's ever seen in the world. I view the glowing as being entirely in Kili's mind. Kili saw Tauriel as this glowing being because he was literally falling in love with her at that moment - Before that, it was no more than a crush.
Glowing is actually a pretty accurate depiction of falling in love with someone!
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Milieuterrien
Rohan
Feb 26 2015, 4:34pm
Post #25 of 41
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Rather romantic, but no less cheesy
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I understand that one may imagine that falling in love makes the object of your love shining or glowing 'for your eyes only', but it's not a Meet the Feebles movie, it's a Tolkien's Middle-Earth movie and I think that PJ and Co do stance a difference.
Don't forget that in the bookcanon, Frodo doesn't fall in love with Glorfindel but sees that elf glowing nevertheless.
So, for myself I wouldn't chose that cheese, even in my most romantic mood regarding any shot involving Evangeline Lilly.
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