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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
JRR Tolkien's The Hobbit: an upcoming fanedit
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AshNazg
Gondor


Feb 25 2015, 3:34am

Post #151 of 203 (1042 views)
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     It's kinda like painting a photo-realistic landscape... [In reply to]  

And someone criticizing it saying "Yeah, but you just copy and pasted the view" Crazy

I think the problem is that those criticizing fan-edits have never edited anything and have no concept of just how much of a complicated art form editing really is (and yes, it IS an art form).

They look at editing as a procedure, like manning a machine, which may take skill but doesn't involve any artistic creativity. But where editing is concerned that is indescribably far from the truth. Editing requires a great deal of artistic flare, knowledge and creativity and to argue otherwise is plainly ignorant.

Also, to say they have no merit or function is evidently false, considering how much interest this thread has gotten and how many people want to see this edit. Film is about entertainment and if, for some, the original doesn't entertain, then there's no harm in attempting an edit that satisfies those people's tastes.

It's been suggested that those who want a shorter version should not go looking for fan-edits, should leave PJ's version alone and just accept that the version they want does not exist. But I don't see why we should accept that depressing perspective when we live in an age in which people will willingly put together a more satisfying version of the film? I want desperately to see a version of The Hobbit that stays faithful to the book and if a fan-edit can provide that then I'm not going to ignore their existence just because some think it's disrespectful.

Was PJ being disrespectful when he made his fan edit of King Kong (with the spider-pit sequence that the original director intentionally edited out)? I'm certain PJ is perfectly fine with the fan-edits and I really cannot understand the hostility toward the idea.


(This post was edited by AshNazg on Feb 25 2015, 3:37am)


AshNazg
Gondor


Feb 25 2015, 4:01am

Post #152 of 203 (1066 views)
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     It's not about "I can do it better"... [In reply to]  

It's about knowing what you personally want from the film. If I like the film, but hate all the Legolas bits - Then why should I not be allowed to take out those Legolas bits (so I don't have to hit skip on my dvd player every time) that way I personally enjoy the film more. Then, if others are of a like mind why not share it with them? Especially if they can't edit, it's just doing them a favour.

It's not a better film, no one is saying it's definitively better, because unlike PJ's version it will appeal to a very specific audience with very specific tastes. PJ's film is the best and most consistent version with the widest audience appeal. But for those of us who just want a short, light watch about a little hobbit going on an adventure (and don't really care about how clean and professional it looks) then there's a fan edit to satisfy that. For those who want the big epic, but no Legolas there's another fan edit. I'm sure there could even be a fan edit with Bilbo cut out and more focus on Thranduil if that's what people want. It's not better or more professional, but it satisfies an specific audience's tastes.


Michelle Johnston
Rohan


Feb 25 2015, 5:22am

Post #153 of 203 (1033 views)
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     Thank you D M [In reply to]  

The fact that you actually acknowledging the films are not perfect is important. If we are going to discuss these films with any degree of insight then I need to be sure the people I am discussing them with people who have no agenda (in either direction).

Discussing art with people who are simply attention seeking, which happens a good deal on the net, I like to think I avoid but equally I am not anxious to engage with people who have blind allegiance who suspend their critical faculties and the fact that you have now stated the films are not perfect encourages me that you travel through these films with all your responses intact.

The key difference in our reception of these films is not the matters we both enjoy, which are many, it is the effect on my enjoyment of the matters which I do not enjoy. I really am seriously considering asking a professional editor to provide me with an edit I will throughly enjoy for many years to come rather than hit the skip button.

To me that result is not that much different to downloading only the pieces of music from a CD I like.

My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.

(This post was edited by Michelle Johnston on Feb 25 2015, 5:26am)


Michelle Johnston
Rohan


Feb 25 2015, 5:47am

Post #154 of 203 (1062 views)
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     There was no misinterprestion on my part [In reply to]  

To quote from DM

"That's what I'm missing when I read threads about fan edits. A genuine respect for other people's work - in this case for the film as a whole - as it is".

The only way to read this is that DM thinks all types of editing of these films is disrespectful. DM is entitled to that opinion and I disagree you can engage with these films AND edit them. I do not see what I want to see I see what is clearly unambiguously written on the page.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

...to see your wonderful post misinterpreted so badly. People see what they want to see, I suppose.

The simple fact is that one doesn't have to love, or even like, PJ's films to show him respect as a filmmaker.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bravo and what your saying contradicts DM's view unless you to believe fan edits are disrespectful.

My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.

(This post was edited by Michelle Johnston on Feb 25 2015, 5:51am)


Michelle Johnston
Rohan


Feb 25 2015, 5:57am

Post #155 of 203 (1020 views)
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     Agreed [In reply to]  

I to watched that sequence and I could not believe the difference. Instead of the disconnected cartoon feel of the original the fighting showed some real engagement and a sense of intimacy that generated a feeling of real jeopardy.

Curiously it is a criticism that I believe PJ has noted because he uses that inside the battle technique to good effect on occasions in the BOFA.

My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.


Michelle Johnston
Rohan


Feb 25 2015, 6:05am

Post #156 of 203 (1025 views)
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     Clarification [In reply to]  


In Reply To
To quote from DM in an earlier post

"That's what I'm missing when I read threads about fan edits. A genuine respect for other people's work - in this case for the film as a whole - as it is".

The only way to read this is that DM thinks all types of editing of these films is disrespectful. DM is entitled to that opinion and I disagree you can engage with these films AND edit them. I do not see what I want to see I see what is clearly unambiguously written on the page across a range of posts.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

...to see your wonderful post misinterpreted so badly. People see what they want to see, I suppose.

The simple fact is that one doesn't have to love, or even like, PJ's films to show him respect as a filmmaker.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bravo and what your saying contradicts DM's view unless you to believe fan edits are disrespectful.


My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.


Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


Feb 25 2015, 6:10am

Post #157 of 203 (1028 views)
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     I do. [In reply to]  

Sorry to disappoint you. Wink

"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen


Spriggan
Tol Eressea

Feb 25 2015, 7:16am

Post #158 of 203 (1009 views)
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     Of course we can - and the world will turn on. [In reply to]  

But this is exactly why we use logical arguments, draw analogies and test rules to seek to progress beyond:

"I think a pork chop is a vegetable"
"It's not"
"Well, let's agree to disagree"


TheHutt
Gondor


Feb 25 2015, 8:27am

Post #159 of 203 (984 views)
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     I would beg to differ. [In reply to]  

The Despecialized editions of Star Wars as created by Harmy is rather to be compared with someone taking a damaged picture in the museum and restoring it to its original state.

The Hobbit: An Unexpected Booklet - Custom Booklet Project



dormouse
Half-elven


Feb 25 2015, 9:16am

Post #160 of 203 (1015 views)
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     Michelle if you had ever read my posts.... [In reply to]  

... actually read them, you'd have known that I don't believe the films are perfect. I've said it too often to need repeating. And this comment takes my breath:


Quote
I am not anxious to engage with people who have blind allegiance who suspend their critical faculties and the fact that you have now stated the films are not perfect encourages me that you travel through these films with all your responses intact


Do you really pass judgement on people like this? That those who say they enjoy something and would rather focus on what they enjoy are 'people who have blind allegiance who suspend their critical faculties'? That in this case a person who won't pay your toll of stating that the films aren't perfect is not worth talking to?

For what it's worth, I think perfection is too much to ask of anyone or anything. I'm certainly not perfect. The people I like and love aren't perfect. My cat isn't perfect. If I'm only to like and respect - and love - people and things I regard as perfect I'm going to have a pretty miserable existence. For me - and this is only me, I'm not telling anyone else what they ought to do, say, or think - for me the trick is to love what you love and accept what you don't: the bumps and corners are very often the things that give character and they're all part of the pattern. I'm not a fan of some aspects of Peter Jackson's humour, for example. I think there is some very funny writing in the films and in the way lines are delivered, but the physical humour, burping and what-not isn't my sort of thing at all. But - and here's the key difference - I don't have any interest in censoring these things from the films. They don't amuse me, but I've heard other people laugh at them and why should they miss out just because they're not me? I don't expect the world to revolve around what I want and what I like.

And I promise you that my critical faculties are as sharp as anyone else's....


Bombadil
Half-elven


Feb 25 2015, 9:40am

Post #161 of 203 (961 views)
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     Bomby seems Simpatico everytime w/ dmouse... [In reply to]  

Bomby has never met her since we live about 8,000 miles apart,
But
BOM would
Buy her many dinners
BECAUSE of what she has contributed to the good here.

Bom's a Lifetime member of the dormouse Fan Club {There ARE many members}
since it's been over 4 years of admiring her posts
should Count for something?
Crazy

www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"


Starling
Half-elven


Feb 25 2015, 9:42am

Post #162 of 203 (989 views)
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     My fan edit of this thread will be available shortly. // [In reply to]  

 


Glorfindela
Valinor


Feb 25 2015, 9:51am

Post #163 of 203 (978 views)
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     Well, that's just too bad [In reply to]  

If you find most of my comments 'incredibly hateful', it's because I find the very idea of taking someone else's creative work and chopping bits from it (rather than producing personal creative work) 'incredibly hateful' and offensive to the creators.

Moreover, working professionally in publishing, and having two siblings and a brother-in-law who are fine artists, and a sister-in-law who is a many-times published author, I certainly do know about breaches of copyright, what editing (as opposed to merely cutting material) involves and vanity projects. I know what other creatives think about those who engage in corrupting other people's creative work and it's certainly not flattering.


In Reply To
Because not only have most of your comments read as incredibly hateful, you really don't seem to know what you're talking about.



(This post was edited by Glorfindela on Feb 25 2015, 9:52am)


Glorfindela
Valinor


Feb 25 2015, 9:52am

Post #164 of 203 (987 views)
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     Thank you [In reply to]  

I look forward to seeing it. SmileTongue


Bofur01
Lorien


Feb 25 2015, 10:07am

Post #165 of 203 (962 views)
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     Can you pass judgement on me, please? [In reply to]  

This is honestly not sarcastic in any way, but could you give your opinion on what I do?

I do occasionally edit the films, but I'd never watch my own edits, as its feel wrong to watch the films in a different way to that which PJ made. But I do try to see if I can edit out some of the stuff in the films which I like least, and see what reordering some of the scenes would do to the narrative. But I'd never share them, and what I do is just a means of testing myself, and seeing how seamless I can make the cuts, when I haven't been out videoing things in a long time.


Starling
Half-elven


Feb 25 2015, 10:08am

Post #166 of 203 (970 views)
Shortcut
     It is quite short, [In reply to]  

due to all the unnecessary parts being cut out. It's the definitive version you know. Cool


BlackFox
Half-elven


Feb 25 2015, 10:14am

Post #167 of 203 (934 views)
Shortcut
     *mods up* // [In reply to]  

 



Glorfindela
Valinor


Feb 25 2015, 10:18am

Post #168 of 203 (937 views)
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     Of course, I think this is absolutely OK [In reply to]  

This is something you are doing for yourself, to challenge yourself and presumably develop your experience. You are not then broadcasting the results to all and sundry (I assume).

IMHO.


In Reply To
This is honestly not sarcastic in any way, but could you give your opinion on what I do?

I do occasionally edit the films, but I'd never watch my own edits, as its feel wrong to watch the films in a different way to that which PJ made. But I do try to see if I can edit out some of the stuff in the films which I like least, and see what reordering some of the scenes would do to the narrative. But I'd never share them, and what I do is just a means of testing myself, and seeing how seamless I can make the cuts, when I haven't been out videoing things in a long time.



dormouse
Half-elven


Feb 25 2015, 10:18am

Post #169 of 203 (942 views)
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     Oh for a 'favourite' button! // [In reply to]  

 


Michelle Johnston
Rohan


Feb 25 2015, 10:23am

Post #170 of 203 (949 views)
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     Remember when you were asked for 5 jarring things about the movies [In reply to]  

. or would if I let it, I can only think of two:

The occasional moments when a character says something which feels far too contemporary and off-the-street to fit comfortably into the story.

An orc to the left of picture during Azog's scene on Waethertop, who is standing so awkwardly that he's obviously just a chap in prosthetics who isn't quite sure what he's doing. I know he's there now, so I don't look!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thats the kind of answer that I base my perception of someones approach to these movies. Not surprisingly next time they begin defending the not quite perfect movie but for two things I am frankly much less likely to take note of their opinion.

To restate I no more enjoy engaging with people who use the internet to attention seek or play out there agenda through endless unremitting criticism than i do uber fans who cannot bring themselves into a meaningful relationship with whatever it is they idolise.

What I love about this board is people show real passion about these films and you can get what they get. Most of the time its matters like the girl and the doll at the burning of dale or Martins sublime last five minutes in BOFA but equally when I am puzzled mystified or frustrated by choices its good to see a real thoughtful critique of the presentation of an idea that makes me understand my puzzlement.

The best examples come from the film makers themselves. Last night I watched the commentary version of the first 1/3rd of AUJ and you can hear PJ and PB discussing their uncertainty about the nature of the Quest For Erebor is it homeland or gold. When in fact having filmed the next two movies they said it was the retrieval of the Arkenstone.
That is very honest and it helps me understand why I feel they leave real key story points bubbling below the surface rather than really communicate them in a concise and dynamic way for a multi lingual global audience who will only go to the cinema once.

My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.

(This post was edited by Michelle Johnston on Feb 25 2015, 10:25am)


Spriggan
Tol Eressea

Feb 25 2015, 10:40am

Post #171 of 203 (926 views)
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     I agree. There seems to be a deal of confusion between the artisan and the artist [In reply to]  

At best, and confusion between replication and creation at worst.

It is surprising as these are questions which art criticism would say, I feel sure, had been resolved getting on for a century ago.


Bombadil
Half-elven


Feb 25 2015, 10:40am

Post #172 of 203 (954 views)
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     FIREWORKS of the Finest Kind are... [In reply to]  

SHOOTING up into the Skies
over ChristChurch, NZ..NOW

to Honor our Lovely STARLING darling! . ! . !

secretly set-OFF from an OLDForest
behind her... her HOUSE?

*Sparkle*...*+* SPARKLE *+* *+*..SPARKLE *+*

Heart

www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"


BlackFox
Half-elven


Feb 25 2015, 12:02pm

Post #173 of 203 (932 views)
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     It sounds to me like you're basing your perception on an unfounded assumption there [In reply to]  

Not stating one's dislikes doesn't automatically mean that one has none, which, I'm sure, you agree with.



Michelle Johnston
Rohan


Feb 25 2015, 12:42pm

Post #174 of 203 (911 views)
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     Is It me or Is it Them [In reply to]  

Either I am losing my powers of perception or people are not saying precisely what they mean. If some one is asked think of five jarring issues with the movies and they can only come up with two I take that at face value.

Anyway a line has been crossed here where we are not talking about the films there content and the OP's fan edit but trying to rebase who we are a against perceptions other have about us.

So you will forgive me if I let this go.

My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.


BlackFox
Half-elven


Feb 25 2015, 1:10pm

Post #175 of 203 (909 views)
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     Sure [In reply to]  


Quote
Either I am losing my powers of perception or people are not saying precisely what they mean.

Or perhaps they are simply choosing what they put their focus on, what they share and what they don't.



(This post was edited by BlackFox on Feb 25 2015, 1:13pm)

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