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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Feb 20 2015, 10:39pm
Post #1 of 12
(1209 views)
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Crazy question about movie Balin
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It just kind of popped into my head this afternoon - you know how Fridays are, you're thinking about getting off of work more than actually DOING any work, LOL! So the question is, would movie Balin really lead an assault on Moria? Not from what I'm seeing, first of all he's more of an advisor than the "get up and go" kind of dwarf. Secondly, I never thought he was that into the quest. He expressed doubts at Bag End, told Thorin "you don't have to do this," and was the first one to walk away from the hidden door when it appeared they lost the light. I just don't see him doing it, but then again I don't know what book Balin's reasons for doing so are. Maybe he just wanted to get away from Dain, LOL, I don't know. Maybe book and movie Balin are as different as book and movie Thorin are. I'm curious of what some more knowedgeable people think.
Why yes, I DO look like Anna Friel!
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dormouse
Half-elven
Feb 20 2015, 10:58pm
Post #2 of 12
(813 views)
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He'd have to have a very good reason, I think....
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Just as Thorin was his reason for going on the journey to Erebor.
He's not so very different from Balin in the book - at least, he doesn't seem so to me. In the book he goes to Moria - I'm not sure that it is an assault as such - in the hope of reclaiming the weath of the old dwarf kingdom and - more particularly - of finding the last of the dwarf rings. Can't quite imagine film Balin going for those reasons - unless there's still a lingering curse on the Erebor treasure and it gets him in the end. Or he doesn't like bagpipes.
Don't know.....
*settles down to wait for the more knowledgeable people,,,,*
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Radagast-Aiwendil
Gondor
Feb 20 2015, 11:28pm
Post #3 of 12
(790 views)
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Is that he changes a few years after settling back into Erebor. He is still grieved by the loss of Thorin (of course), and he certainly doesn't suffer from any dragon sickness so to speak, but upon reflection I think Balin would find himself greatly inspired by the ultimate success of the Quest of Erebor against the incredible odds it faced-even more so given his own initial doubts. So then he gets to thinking-if the supposedly unstoppable Smaug can be killed and driven out of Erebor, why can't the supposedly unstoppable Durin's Bane be driven out of Moria? So his hope and positivity blinds him and fuels his own downfall. Whilst Balin is indeed very wise, and one would expect his wisdom to grow with the years, he might have become less rational in his later years as older people are occasionally inclined to become. I think it is plausible for the pieces to fit together, but the audience has to use their brains to fill in the gaps (which is nice, given the lack of subtlety often present in The Hobbit Trilogy). As long as Thorin's funeral makes it into the EE, we may even see a conversation like this unfold with Balin and co-after all, PJ does love to tick off all the foreshadowing boxes wherever possible.
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."-Gandalf
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Elarie
Grey Havens
Feb 20 2015, 11:50pm
Post #4 of 12
(748 views)
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Totally agree with your assessment
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Movie Balin is a wonderful character and it's impossible not to love him, but there does seem to be a "personality incompatibility" between the Balin we saw on screen and the idea of the book Balin who led an expedition to Moria. It's difficult to imagine movie Balin going to Moria without having to work very hard to invent some reason for it. Still, movie Balin served as a wonderful foil for the more hot-headed Thorin and filled the role of wise counselor beautifully and I loved the way Ken Stott portrayed him.
__________________
Gold is the strife of kinsmen,
and fire of the flood-tide,
and the path of the serpent.
(Old Icelandic Fe rune poem)
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Bombadil
Half-elven
Feb 21 2015, 12:34am
Post #5 of 12
(717 views)
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Well, It would have to have been less than 60 Years...
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of The Re-Claiming of Erebor
for the Quest to Re-Claim Moria Happened..
WE know @Least Balin, OIN & Ori went...
SSooo Likely enlisted Dwalin, Nori, "Repaired" Bifur,
Especially?
Much of the Misty Mountains Orcs {TO their way of Thinking}
MAY...have died
on the "Slaughter Field" in front of Erebor...
SSooo.
Thinking they Finally have the Advantage...
Balin with Dwalin could have
Enlisted many of Iron Hills DUDES, to Rally
a "Crazy Large Force" from the Rest!..
of THE 7 Families
Scattered..throughout ME..
THEY could have
Armed the Rest of them and
Advanced from Both DOORS?
Cool Thread IDEA..
bom
www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"
(This post was edited by Bombadil on Feb 21 2015, 12:39am)
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squiggle
Rivendell
Feb 21 2015, 2:43am
Post #6 of 12
(723 views)
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Movie Balin of DOS in ee would
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Balin organises things in a pretty determined way to make sure that they are able to cross the Lake with Bard & he's pretty goal orientated. In general, he is also Thorin's organiser.
Balin worries about Thorin alot, who saved his life in AUJ, who he knows is a good Dwarve heir but struggles with the legacy of Erebor. Once Balin is no longer helping take care of Thorins's struggles with the great burden he carries along with his leadership duties, the same type of challenges are not so heavy for him as they were despite not being the warrior that Thorin was. I would imagine he consults with Dwalin the way Thorin did him when he needs to 
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MyWeeLadGimli
Lorien
Feb 21 2015, 4:03am
Post #7 of 12
(668 views)
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It's the same in the movie as the book
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In Fellowship, Gloin says that Dwalin, Dori, Nori, Bifur, Bofur, and Bombur are still at the Lonely Mountain. Apparently there's also a letter from those Dwarves seen in Old Bilbo's study in the film, so I guess it went the same way as in the book.
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joec_34
Rivendell
Feb 21 2015, 1:49pm
Post #8 of 12
(591 views)
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Maybe Gandalf convinced him to do it...
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...because Durin's Bane would be an unstoppable force if he teamed up with Sauron. Gandalf is always getting people killed with his meddling.
"Happy painting and God bless, my friend." - Bob Ross
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Feb 21 2015, 2:10pm
Post #9 of 12
(613 views)
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Balin thought that Moria might be clear of Goblins
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The Battle of the Five Armies depleted the Misty Mountains of many of its goblins (at least in the book). Balin believed that any remaining in Moria would be too weak to seriously threaten a new colony.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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Bombadil
Half-elven
Feb 21 2015, 2:38pm
Post #10 of 12
(597 views)
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When Gandalf leaves Bilbo @ the Edge of the Shire?
AND Bilbo says " I lost...IT"
"you are a very Fine Felloww..etc."
WHERE do you suppose we went TO..?
EREBOR, of Course...!.*+Bingo+*...!....
LIGHTz go OFF
His Job? of Escorting Bilbo back to SHIRE was OVER
NOW it was Balin's TURN!
THE
"Mission TOOoo..Re-Claim Moria"
was NEXT on
G-Man's
Itinerary...
{WHAT a WIZzzE Wizard, he beeee..}
www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"
(This post was edited by Bombadil on Feb 21 2015, 2:42pm)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Feb 21 2015, 6:30pm
Post #11 of 12
(570 views)
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It seems more likely to me that Gandalf would have continued on to the Blue Mountains. King Dain would have dispatched messengers to the Ered Luin on his own, but Gandalf and Bilbo would have had a considerable head start by wintering at Beorn's hall and might still be ahead of any such messengers. I imagine that Gandalf would have felt obligated to bring news of the deaths of Thorin and his nephews to Dis, Fili & Kili's mother.
I don't see Gandalf being much involved in Balin's expedition to Moria. In book-canon, Balin attempted to found his new colony in TA 2989; this might have happened earlier in the continuity of the films, but I still don't see it being much before 2972 or so. Much before that and Dain would have certainly sent some of his folk to find out why no one had heard from Balin and the others for so long.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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banaili
Bree
Feb 25 2015, 5:03pm
Post #12 of 12
(430 views)
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We do see a bit of the typical dwarvish pride in Balin during that moment where Elrond reads the moon runes for them! He was completely against Elrond taking the map from them. So as level-headed as he usually is throughout the films, that might be a bit of insight into the more "dwarf"-like parts of his mind, and perhaps shows why he might have suddenly felt the pride enough to reclaim their home in Moria!
(To be honest, I thought Ken Stott's Balin was 100% faithful to the book--I adored him as much as I did the book version--and Balin was my favorite character in the book! )
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