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moreorless
Gondor
Feb 19 2015, 8:28am
Post #2 of 5
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The shift from physical to moral tests...
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I would say really the key to Bilbo's story is that it shifts from a more standard heroic tests we see him pass in AUJ and DOS to more of a moral one.
Stealing the Arkenstone to try and resolve the conflict doesn't achieve his intended purpose but I think you can argue it really does plant the seed for Thorin's redemption. Generally Bilbo is the only one to really gainsay Thorin up to this point, more subtley to start with but then a full denouncement.
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Feb 19 2015, 2:51pm
Post #3 of 5
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1. That's what happened in the book, complete with the recrimination you speak of; and
2. Sometimes things just don't work out in real life.
No, I don't think Bilbo was a "failure," but I do think his plan to save Thorin failed, mostly because Dain's army showed up, and THAT was something both completely out of his hands AND something he didn't know about. I don't think there's any way the EE can fix this, at least not in the way you seem to want it fixed. I mean, the way I would fix it is that Bilbo would get there and warn Thorin before it's too late, thereby saving all three heirs of Durin, but that would be too much of a deviation from the original story, LOL!
Why yes, I DO look like Anna Friel!
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FrodoEyes
Rivendell
Feb 19 2015, 10:30pm
Post #4 of 5
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This is Bilbo's story, and how he came out of his shell, had an adventure, and changed for the better. So in that sense, h succeeded.
'I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.'
'So do all who live to see such times but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.'
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Michelle Johnston
Rohan
Feb 19 2015, 11:58pm
Post #5 of 5
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Bilbos "Failure" is much like Beren & Luthien's.
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Bilbo is the ultimate mover of events in Middle Earth in the Third Age and whilst the three ring bearers obtained permission for Frodo to take ship for the great suffering of his journey, the sanction for Bilbo the love and regard of him is because he passed two tests that no other member of the free peoples faced and enabled events to unfold which would lead crucially to the defeat of Sauron.
1) When faced with the dragon hoard and the Arkenstone he remained humble and unmoved and instead pursued with great courage actions which lead directly to the death of the dragon. At a symbolic level he not only showed moral authority that was beyond Thorin but most importantly in his conversation with Smaug he managed to unsettle the Dragon so much that the Dragon made the flight to Lake Town. If the Dragon had remained unmoved and protected his hoard until a later moment and then worked with the Axis of Evil he would have helped toward a victory in the North for Sauron at the end of the Third Age or a defeat in victory for Aragorn.
2) He was the one long term bearer of the One Ring who managed finally to let it go. That was crucial he was meant to receive the ring but Frodo was meant to take the journey to destroy if Bilbo had fallen like Smeagol in the end Sauron would have found the ring and flooded middle earth with a final darkness.
The real failure of the Hobbit is Sauron in the film universe. He failed to take account of the vainglorious nature of the Dragon and how he would react to the most minor incursion into his lair. He was an unreliable and unstable ally.
The most important message of the Hobbit is that Bilbo's journey, which was blessed and brought about by a Maiar, in the manor which was true to the Ainur's interest in middle earth at this time, achieved its objective of unsettling the Dragon through his invisibility, which was achieved by the enemy's own greatest weapon.
The Hobbit - A Morality Tale !!
My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.
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