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Legolas_Shoehorn
Bree
Feb 17 2015, 9:40am
Post #1 of 43
(1508 views)
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Two Hobbit Movies: skip AUJ and start with DOS?
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Yesterday i was thinking again about the 3 film split and how long these movies are.
And after a while i asked myself: do we really need AUJ to enjoy the Quest for Erebor?
We get all the necessary & relevant information about the characters, their goal and
the important villains during the first hour of the DOS EE.
By skipping AUJ, some of the --- let me say boring --- LOTR references and revisiting
places we already know can be easily avoided.
What do you think? Could you live without AUJ?
My English is not that good, my Elvish is better ;-)
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Arannir
Valinor
Feb 17 2015, 9:47am
Post #2 of 43
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AUJ is imho by far the best of the three movies.
I am not sure how I would feel about this trilogy if it weren't for the first hour in the Shire and the Riddle's scene.
DoS and BotFA never reached these heights again, IMHO, apart from (rather) short scenes.
Seeing how Freeman makes Bilbo come alive is also superb and never better than in scenes such as his "decision" scene.
No, even I who is pretty frustrated with how the trilogy ended can go back to these early - in a way "innocent" - hours of the tale an simply let Middle-earth come alive for me.
I would never want to lose that, no matter what issues I have with what follows once they leave the Shire.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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dormouse
Half-elven
Feb 17 2015, 10:03am
Post #3 of 43
(993 views)
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Crumbs, that's a different question
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And my instinct is to say 'no' straight away and without qualification, not only because I love AUJ for its own sake, and because I DO think that for most people the introductions and scene-setting in the film is essential. Take the most important question of all: how is the audience to understand Bilbo if it never gets to see the place where he belongs and the way he lives?
I couldn't envisage The Hobbit without AUJ and wouldn't want to.
But if you find it boring and would be happy to skip it and start with DOS, that's up to you. So I suppose my answer would be that I really need AUJ and I suspect most other people do too. But if you feel you don't, good luck to you!
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balbo biggins
Rohan
Feb 17 2015, 10:44am
Post #4 of 43
(915 views)
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if you want, i quite often will watch individual lotr films with no intention of watching it all the way through, but thats only do able as i ve seen them and know them.
and i have to admit, ive found it hard to rewatch AUJ it feels like one big intro until we get to the goblin caves, and then you have to put up with the goblin kings song, which i find really weak. so yes i understand about not watching auj , butt only because i have already. dos is easier to watch.
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Feb 17 2015, 11:21am
Post #5 of 43
(920 views)
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For me, AUJ is the second best film after BoFA, DoS coming in last. It also contains some of the canon book movements, and is an indispensable introduction to the trilogy.
The only thing I would like to 'live without' is the gross moments in the films, the overuse of Legolas and Tauriel in DoS at the expense of canon characters, and the stupid stunts of Legolas.
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Thrain II
Lorien
Feb 17 2015, 1:12pm
Post #6 of 43
(864 views)
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Definitely not, since AUJ is my favourite of the 3.
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Legolas_Shoehorn
Bree
Feb 17 2015, 1:17pm
Post #7 of 43
(902 views)
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Maybe 'boring' is the wrong word. I like to see new places & people of Middle Earth.
So the revisiting some of the LOTR locations in AUJ felt a little bit uninspiring to me (especially the Weather Top & Rivendell).
The protagonist of AUJ is clearly Bilbo. But with DOS & BOT5A his role as protagonist gets more and more diminished.
The protagonist of DOS & BOT5A is Thorin. By starting with DOS i feel less irritated with the protagonist shifting between
the two movies.
My English is not that good, my Elvish is better ;-)
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Noria
Gondor
Feb 17 2015, 1:19pm
Post #8 of 43
(863 views)
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The first part of AUJ is almost perfect to my mind and what we learn about the characters of Bilbo, Thorin and the rest of the Dwarves is crucial to the rest of the trilogy.
I dislike the Goblin King but he's a small price to pay for Riddles in the Dark.
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Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea
Feb 17 2015, 1:20pm
Post #9 of 43
(870 views)
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Do without the most Bilbo-centric film in the trilogy?
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*Dr. Evil Voice*
How 'bout Nooooooooooo....
"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen
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DanielLB
Immortal
Feb 17 2015, 1:29pm
Post #10 of 43
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But what about someone watching the hexology for the first time, starting with AUJ?
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Would you advise them to skip FOTR for the same reason?
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Legolas_Shoehorn
Bree
Feb 17 2015, 1:43pm
Post #11 of 43
(869 views)
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No, definitely not. Lets keep the trilogies separated for a moment.
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Like Aragorn the Elfstone said AUJ is the most Bilbo-centric film in the trilogy.
In DOS & BOT5A Bilbo is no longer the main character. The viewer who starts with DOS does
not need Bilbo as the main protagonist. He can stick to Thorin (hence to the Parcing pony scene)
and the cliffhanger feels less abrupt.
My English is not that good, my Elvish is better ;-)
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DanielLB
Immortal
Feb 17 2015, 1:55pm
Post #12 of 43
(834 views)
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Lets keep the trilogies separated for a moment.
There's no need to skip AUJ then, is there?
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dormouse
Half-elven
Feb 17 2015, 1:58pm
Post #13 of 43
(852 views)
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Well, as I said, I just don't see it the same way as you do
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For a start, I don't agree that Bilbo is no longer the main character after AUJ. I'm baffled that anyone can watch the films and say this, but they do, so there you go....
The film I'm watching is Bilbo's story throughout. He needs others to interact with or there would be no story: Thorin is a central character and they have certainly deepened and developed his character for the film, but that doesn't diminish Bilbo's role at all. It just gives more nuances and layers to their relationship. We travel with Bilbo. We encounter the world outside Bag End and its characters through his eyes and we go home with him at the end. There is no shift in protagonists - nothing to be irritated by in that sense at least. And because it's all about Bilbo of course the films need his starting point just as they need his journey's end. That's the film I'm seeing - one story in three parts.
But if seeing the new locations is your reason for watching the films that's fine - we don't all have to do things the same way. I just reckon that anyone whose focus is the story, and understanding the story, would be better advised to start at the beginning.
(This post was edited by dormouse on Feb 17 2015, 1:59pm)
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Lindele
Gondor
Feb 17 2015, 2:22pm
Post #14 of 43
(852 views)
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especially considering it is the best of the three
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xxxyyy
Rohan
Feb 17 2015, 2:23pm
Post #15 of 43
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No. But if I have to skip one, that would be DOS...
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But then the movie (which is one and not three) wouldn't make sense.
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Riven Delve
Tol Eressea
Feb 17 2015, 2:29pm
Post #16 of 43
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that seems like cutting the heart out of it to me. Without AUJ you don't know the characters, you don't know what they're up to, and you don't know why they're doing it. On the other hand, there is more action and more places to see with DOS and BotFA, so if you're not interested in the story but rather the spectacle, then I can see what you mean. But for an overall coherent adventure, with roots and characters, you need AUJ.
“Tollers,” Lewis said to Tolkien, “there is too little of what we really like in stories. I am afraid we shall have to try and write some ourselves.”
(This post was edited by Riven Delve on Feb 17 2015, 2:30pm)
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Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea
Feb 17 2015, 2:43pm
Post #17 of 43
(815 views)
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... I used that assertion as the reason to NOT skip AUJ.
In any case, beginning with DoS, Bilbo and Thorin become dual protagonists. There is no part of the trilogy in which Thorin is the sole protagonist.
"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Feb 17 2015, 5:00pm
Post #18 of 43
(753 views)
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As I generally do, with you.
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Starling
Half-elven
Feb 17 2015, 5:15pm
Post #19 of 43
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I think it's the worst of the three,
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other from a few parts that I think are truly excellent.
I am quite happy to watch the beginning (minus the songs) at Bag End, and then skip everything else apart from riddles in the dark, and then watch the end.
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Feb 17 2015, 5:50pm
Post #21 of 43
(758 views)
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I understand that, to an extent
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Maybe 'boring' is the wrong word. I like to see new places & people of Middle Earth.
So the revisiting some of the LOTR locations in AUJ felt a little bit uninspiring to me (especially the Weather Top & Rivendell).
The protagonist of AUJ is clearly Bilbo. But with DOS & BOT5A his role as protagonist gets more and more diminished.
The protagonist of DOS & BOT5A is Thorin. By starting with DOS i feel less irritated with the protagonist shifting between
the two movies.
I like the prologue where Bilbo talks about Erebor and Smaug. I think it helps explain Thorin quite well. However, I usually fast-forward through "Old Bilbo & Frodo," which was entirely unnecessary IMO. I love the rest of the Shire scenes, though, particularly the "Blunt the Knives" song, so I'd have a hard time giving that up. Though I understand that some people do think that went on too long, to me it was the ONLY introduction we got with most of the dwarves. IF you start with DOS, you're not going to know who half of them are, even with the extra scene with Beorn. In BOTFA most of the dwarves get short-changed.
Also, it's funny how you say the protagonist shifts from Bilbo to Thorin - which alot of Hobbit fans agree with AND complain about. But "The Hobbit" was always about Bilbo's quest as much as Thorin's, and I don't really see a "shift" in protagonists. I mean, it's not like you can't have two protagonists. And when did they go to Weathertop? They went to Trollshaws, which is near some breathtaking cliffs in Pio Pio (I've been studying this, as I plan to go on my own ME adventure late this year or early next - fingers crossed!), also walked near a glacier and over the "rock and pillar range," neither of which were in the LOTR movies. And that waterfall they walked under in Earnslaw Burn, I MUST do that someday!!! I probably can't help you with the alleged protagonist shifting, but go back and look for those scenes, they're really amazing!
Why yes, I DO look like Anna Friel!
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RosieLass
Valinor
Feb 17 2015, 6:49pm
Post #22 of 43
(751 views)
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I'd skip the third one, if I was going to skip one.
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But not AUJ. The best of the three, IMO, and also (not coincidentally), the most faithful to the book.
"BOTH [political] extremes are dangerous. But more dangerous are team fanboys who think all the extremists are on the OTHER side." (CNN reader comment)
It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)
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Bishop
Gondor
Feb 17 2015, 6:55pm
Post #23 of 43
(744 views)
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Watch or not watch whichever one you want?
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Kim
Valinor
Feb 17 2015, 8:02pm
Post #24 of 43
(711 views)
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AUJ is my favorite movie, and as others have said, the heart of these films. In terms of revisiting places we've already seen, not only do we get to see Erebor and Dale before the dragon came (brand new M-e locations), we get to see new parts of some wonderful places such as Bag End and Rivendell. The Unexpected Party shows us a lot more of Bag End, and introduces us to all of the dwarves. The area around Trollshaws is new and gives us the introduction of Sting, Orcrist and Glamdring. The moon runes scene lets us see a new part of Rivendell, and moves the story along with the revelation of how and when they can enter the mountain. And how could you not have Riddles in the Dark? An iconic scene with the discovery of the One Ring that sets up the rest of the story of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings.
For me, AUJ grounds us in the story, and gives us so much in terms of character introduction and world building (the thriving dwarf kingdom in Erebor and the Battle of Azanulbizar to name just a few). And I would never, ever want to be without Misty Mountains Cold. 
#OneLastTime
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arithmancer
Grey Havens
Feb 17 2015, 8:08pm
Post #25 of 43
(701 views)
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...who went to Weathertop.
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