|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
VeArkenstone
Lorien
Feb 12 2015, 7:32pm
Post #1 of 13
(1476 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Frodo experiences the White Light of Forever in FoTR ?
|
Can't Post
|
|
In the Fellowship, when Arwen and a mortally wounded Frodo arrive in Rivendale, there is the scene where Lord Elrond is talking over Frodo and Frodo opens his eyes and passes right out again. I think it is possible this scene is filmed as from Frodo's eyes: he sees Lord Elrond and hears him speaking in a room that appears to have fallen away and is filled with a beautiful white light. I suspect PJ has threaded ideas like this throughout The Trilogy and The Hobbit. So, so cool!
Has anyone noticed any other threads running through the six movies? Does this White Light of Forever idea make any sense ?
Please, call me Ve.
|
|
|
Brethil
Half-elven
Feb 12 2015, 7:50pm
Post #2 of 13
(1362 views)
Shortcut
|
And I think the filmmakers used the idea that the Elves, living closer to Arda and some portion in the world of spirit (a textual example, as Legolas: and he could sleep, if sleep it could be called by Men, resting his mind in the strange paths of elvish dreams, even as he walked open-eyed in the light of this world. The Two Towers: The Riders of Rohan ). I think the sight of Glorfindel by Frodo in his power as a shining figure of white light is Glorfindel 'on the other side' (at Bruinen, as Gandalf explains in Rivendell) is a textual example of this (among many) as well.
Thus in film, I believe that 'white light' is the sight of the world of spirit that the Elves partially dwell in, with their eternal link to the world; different than Men, and thus Hobbits who are within the family of Men, who will depart from this world when they die.
That's what Frodo sees it around Arwen when she first appears, and he is dragged closer to the spirit-world, where the Wraiths dwell, by the power of the W-K's wound. He sees it around Elrond as he heals Frodo, close to death. And they used the same concept when Tauriel heals Kili, and he sees the other side in white light around her as well. Elven healing and longevity is based, as JRRT writes in Morgoth's Ring, on their ability to control the body (hroa) with the spirit (fea) so that the 'magic' of Elven healing is very much a spiritual thing.
(This post was edited by Brethil on Feb 12 2015, 7:53pm)
|
|
|
cats16
Half-elven
Feb 13 2015, 1:22am
Post #3 of 13
(1325 views)
Shortcut
|
And I think the white light behind Galadriel in ROTK (the cut to Lothlorien in Shelob's Lair) is also representative of the spirit world you've mentioned.
Join us every weekend in the Hobbit movie forum for this week's CHOW (Chapter of the Week) discussion!
|
|
|
Brethil
Half-elven
Feb 13 2015, 2:03am
Post #4 of 13
(1313 views)
Shortcut
|
I hadn't thought of that one. I suppose the symbolism there is that she is communicating via spirit...and that because of his exhaustion and the prescience of the Ring he is 'seeing' it.
|
|
|
balbo biggins
Rohan
Feb 13 2015, 4:39pm
Post #5 of 13
(1294 views)
Shortcut
|
im more inclined to think it was a movie making decision to add a bit of something magical than any deep rooted concept of forever light!!! whatever that is.
|
|
|
Niniachel
The Shire
Feb 13 2015, 7:34pm
Post #6 of 13
(1283 views)
Shortcut
|
I like the idea! it makes sense that a Morgul-wound would make you more susceptible to the spirit world - I believe Gandalf says something amongst the lines of "after a while you wouldn't have had to put the ring on to see the ringwraiths" (or maybe that's my mind playing tricks on me), and as ringwraiths are creatures of the spirit world...
Although- the ring has sort of that effect as well, doesn't it? it allows you to sort of see the spirit world (Frodo sees ringwraiths, and elves look differently) and after a long, long while you wouldn't need to wear the ring to be invisible (damn- where was this said? hobbit book or lotr book?)
would that mean Morgul-magic is a concentrated form of what the ring does? hrmz, I must ponder on this...
|
|
|
Brethil
Half-elven
Feb 13 2015, 7:49pm
Post #7 of 13
(1279 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Its not stated uber-clearly by JRRT
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
I like the idea! it makes sense that a Morgul-wound would make you more susceptible to the spirit world - I believe Gandalf says something amongst the lines of "after a while you wouldn't have had to put the ring on to see the ringwraiths" (or maybe that's my mind playing tricks on me), and as ringwraiths are creatures of the spirit world...
Although- the ring has sort of that effect as well, doesn't it? it allows you to sort of see the spirit world (Frodo sees ringwraiths, and elves look differently) and after a long, long while you wouldn't need to wear the ring to be invisible (damn- where was this said? hobbit book or lotr book?)
would that mean Morgul-magic is a concentrated form of what the ring does? hrmz, I must ponder on this...
We discuss this a lot on the RR. The idea that the Ring's 'invisibility' is the wearer existing on another plane, the 'spirit' plane, seems to be a possible nuts-and-bolts sort of explanation. And if indeed the Wraiths dwell there, needing robes to shape their 'nothingness' in this plane, than the uniting idea of the Morgul items and the Ring are the other plane of existence. The Morgul-wound is meant to weaken the spirit tethered to the living plane, and make it more malleable and visible to the Wraiths in the spirit plane, I think.
Thus that is why the Witch-King would stab Frodo on Weathertop with that sort of blade, and retreat (especially in the face of Aragorn) to await the injury to claim Frodo.
(This post was edited by Brethil on Feb 13 2015, 7:50pm)
|
|
|
Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea
Feb 14 2015, 11:47am
Post #8 of 13
(1252 views)
Shortcut
|
I think PJ could have used Frodo“s vision in the house of Tom Bombadil from the book to shape this moments, and that the vision he has are of some "future" moments of his stay in Valinor.
Philippa talked sometimes that the movies are a symbolic story of death, and that they have received letters of young guys who had some cancer or something that the movies helped them to face their situations wheter they died later or not. You can see it clearly in Cameron Duncan.
Perhaps if we reordered the scenes chronologically Elrond or Ggaladriel moments could have been also some metaphoric future vision“s of Frodos passing in Valinor
The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true
Survivor to the battle for the fifth trailer
Hobbit Cinema Marathon Hero
|
|
|
swordwhale
Tol Eressea
Feb 14 2015, 1:59pm
Post #9 of 13
(1273 views)
Shortcut
|
I always felt that Tolkien evoked the spiritual beautifully in his writings without specifically going into religion, which is why it appeals to everyone from devout Catholics to Wiccans.
I remember something (from one of his letters? a bio?) where he is in church and has a vision of a great light and threads of light connecting each of us to it... something about those threads being our angels...
I think PJ evoked this idea of light and spirit (and the differences between the Light and the Dark Side of the Force) really well.
Na 'Aear, na 'Aear! Mżl 'lain nallol, I sūl ribiel a i falf 'loss reviol...
To the sea, to the sea, the white gulls are crying, the wind is blowing and the white foam is flying...
|
|
|
VeArkenstone
Lorien
Mar 30 2015, 6:35pm
Post #10 of 13
(815 views)
Shortcut
|
|
It has been so long since I have been on-line, sorry for not responding sooner. .
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Well said Brethil, and everyone else! I just love these scenes so much, and love the idea that Elvish medicine is actuallly the Elves ability to control the body through the Spirit, that all physical ailments can be healed through the Spirit. Possibly if we could tap into more than 10% of our brain power, we could do similar things. Thanks everyone for presenting such great ideas about this.
Please, call me Ve.
|
|
|
Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Mar 30 2015, 6:40pm
Post #11 of 13
(812 views)
Shortcut
|
Well said Brethil, and everyone else! I just love these scenes so much, and love the idea that Elvish medicine is actuallly the Elves ability to control the body through the Spirit, that all physical ailments can be healed through the Spirit. Possibly if we could tap into more than 10% of our brain power, we could do similar things. Thanks everyone for presenting such great ideas about this.
The idea that we only tap into about 10% of our brains' capacity is a bit of a myth and an obsolete idea. For one thing, it underestimates how much of our thought processes occur in our subconscious. That is not to say, though, that most of us come close to tapping the full potential of our minds.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
|
|
|
VeArkenstone
Lorien
Mar 30 2015, 6:44pm
Post #12 of 13
(811 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Thanks, this is somewhat encouraging. Sometimes I do have to wonder tho ....
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Please, call me Ve.
|
|
|
Brethil
Half-elven
Mar 31 2015, 3:25pm
Post #13 of 13
(800 views)
Shortcut
|
I do really like the realm of Spirit as having healing power, I think its a very elegant construct. And since Elves are tied to Arda and that seems to be connected to their life-force, its such an encompassing idea. Drawing healing from the land itself, in a sense.
I work in health care, and with brain injuries and surgeries - as OS says, we do actually use every part of the brain...but I can say there are days where I feel like I'm using well BELOW a 10% margin!  Usually days I stumble around grunting for more coffee. 
|
|
|
|
|
