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balbo biggins
Rohan
Feb 5 2015, 12:51pm
Post #1 of 130
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passive agression
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members systematically go to every thread that tries to discuss things like,what would you change or how about this, and state they wouldnt change a thing. which of couse is fine, but when its with every post, it becomes antagonistic , a bit like bullying but certainly trying to be domineering.
would it not be advisable or kinder to everyone else to just leave threads that that have nothing to contribute. I
(This post was edited by Eledhwen on Feb 5 2015, 4:59pm)
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Eledhwen
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Feb 5 2015, 5:02pm
Post #2 of 130
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Board members are perfectly at liberty to comment in whichever threads they wish provided they abide by board rules. Nobody has contravened board rules by commenting that they would not change anything - this is their opinion which they are entitled to, and I would argue that explanations as to why they wouldn't change something are a valid contribution to the discussion.
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balbo biggins
Rohan
Feb 5 2015, 5:22pm
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I agree with you, but ..
rule six states No spamming of the boards. This includes, but is not limited to, repeatedly posting the same or similar content more than one time or in more than one forum
I would argue a number of posters are contravening this concerning threads that are trying to have fun and discuss what if topics.
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Eledhwen
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Feb 5 2015, 5:45pm
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Rule 6 means don't post the same thread in multiple forums, and don't constantly repost the same topic (eg if someone kept coming back to TH board and repeatedly started a thread saying "Thorin's belt was too wide" we'd ask them to stop). It does not prohibit you or others who would prefer things to have been different from asking what you'd change about a number of specific sequences, and it does not prohibit people from responding to threads about changes in different parts of the film that they wouldn't change it. They're not spamming the boards, they're engaging in a debate within a thread.
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balbo biggins
Rohan
Feb 6 2015, 12:03am
Post #5 of 130
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even if they are constantly repeating the same sentiments multiple times in the same threads, and across similar 'what if' topics.. this isnt debate. you could argue rule 6 applies here .
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Silverlode
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Feb 6 2015, 12:34am
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who posts on these forums, because we have many threads on similar topics, ends up repeating their opinions at some point unless they change them along the way. If they didn't, discussion would quickly die out. I myself have had essentially the same opinion of Balrog wings since the First Age of TORN, and it isn't spamming to give it when the topic arises. It would be spamming if I continually brought the topic up myself. That is the difference.
Also, you do not get to tell people what opinions they can post in reply to a thread. These boards are for general discussion, and we don't segregate viewpoints. As long as it is not against the rules, it's fine. If a reply does not contain information of interest to you, just move on to one that does.
Silverlode
Want a LOTR Anniversary footer of your own? Get one here!
"Dark is the water of Kheled-zâram, and cold are the springs of Kibil-nâla, and fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dűm in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone."
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Elizabeth
Half-elven
Feb 6 2015, 6:44am
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Some people love absolutely every single thing about the movies, but most have at least a few complaints. People who hated the movies are simply not here.
It's potentially an interesting discussion point to ask "What would you change about [xxx]?" It's a way of encouraging people to think constructively about aspects of the movies. I'm probably well known here as a frequent critic of some aspects of The Hobbit movies (too much comic book violence, etc.) but I responded "Nothing" to what I would change about the first AUJ Hobbiton sequences. In my opinion, they were perfect. I'm aware that some of the professional critics thought that went on too long and was boring, so it's an interesting question, and it provoked an interesting discussion.
I completely agree with the Admins on this one.
(This post was edited by Elizabeth on Feb 6 2015, 6:48am)
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Arannir
Valinor
Feb 6 2015, 9:16am
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And very well said, Elizabeth.
However, the OP's extreme stance on these kind of posts does not come out of nowhere, I think.
More than once constructive criticism and wishes for alterations have been labelled as disrespectful to the filmmaking team and the posters told that they are haters. Imho much more often than "negative people" have gone overboard and accused people of fanboying (which is just as bad).
It is pretty obvious imho that most people who took a rather negative view of the movies and discussed them have left the boards. And I cannot say I blame them reading through some of the threads of the last two months.
I know that there have been some people here who obviously wanted to stir things up with ultra-negative comments. But this was used too quickly by some to throw most "critics" into one basket.
I do think TORN has suffered from this - both sides (and maybe most of all those in-between).
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
(This post was edited by Arannir on Feb 6 2015, 9:16am)
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Arannir
Valinor
Feb 6 2015, 12:08pm
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I am sure there have been extreme posts from both sides and it is hard to tell who started. A chicken and egg thing.
Sad though that these extreme people were and are a minority but that it led to many balanced regulars leave or move ot the extremes themselves.
I hope you return at some point. Be had very heated discussions (several times) - even when we agreen on our general consesus of the movies - yet always got along outside of individual topics. There was never that camp-mentality which now poisons the atmosphere. So yeah, I hope we can get back to that in the future :)
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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Dame Ioreth
Tol Eressea
Feb 6 2015, 12:52pm
Post #12 of 130
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Some folks can't seem to accept the other opinion
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And naturally fall into a "camp" mentality where they have to change the other person's mind. I've seen thoughtful posts from folks like Dormouse shouted down in the threads started with an OP that is critical of the movies. If those who don't like the movies can't hear a thoughtful (and possibly eye-opening) account from someone who is being respectful, then it makes me at least wonder if they are really there to discuss.
Sometimes I think folks are so in love with the books that they cannot accept anything less than the movie that has lived in their head and it is heartbreaking to see deviations. The Hobbit is not among my favorite books of all time but I've had that happen with other books (Mansfield Park - oh my gosh, where did Patricia Rozema come up with that movie?!) I just did't like what she did to my beloved Jane. Instead of railing against the movie though, I will watch parts of it that I did like if I really need a dose of that particular book on film. Other than that, I have moved on. I didn't like it - it doesn't get my money. period.
So if this site has lost some folks because they didn't like the "atmosphere", I am truly sorry. There were probably as many rabid lovers as there were haters - folks on both sides who could not bother to keep things nice. But there were many people trying to keep things civil and fun. That is the charm of TORn, in my opinion. If it wasn't enough for some then it might be for the best that they find another niche.
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Heed WBA when building blanket forts.
ITLs don't get enough FAS. :)
Where there's life there's hope, and need of vittles.
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings
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Arannir
Valinor
Feb 6 2015, 12:59pm
Post #13 of 130
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However, the opposite has been done as well: thoughtful critical comments that have only been answered with accusations of hating and negativism.
And there is plenty of criticism outside of a book-purist standpoint. People ready to see major changes to the book (even in terms of tone an style) who name what they perceive as flaws in terms of movie-making.
I agree with you that there were and are a lot of people on both sides that tried to keep things civil and fun... I hope I tried my best to belong to those. Still, several people have stated that are thinking about leaving. I hope they don't and those who did: I hope they return. Whatever their view on the movies are.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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NottaSackville
Valinor
Feb 6 2015, 1:02pm
Post #14 of 130
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 Happiness: money matters, but less than we think and not in the way that we think. Family is important and so are friends, while envy is toxic -- and so is excessive thinking. Beaches are optional. Trust is not. Neither is gratitude. - The Geography of Bliss by Eric Weiner as summarized by Lily Fairbairn. And a bit of the Hobbit reading thrown in never hurts. - NottaSackville
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Dame Ioreth
Tol Eressea
Feb 6 2015, 1:16pm
Post #15 of 130
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Yes, as I stated both sides had their fanatics
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Since the persons who seemed to be leaving were the same who were critical, I addressed that issue.
As far as I'm concerned, I don't care who you are, or whether you liked something or not as long as your civil, can accept another's opinion without making it your business to change that opinion AND as long as you can join in on the fun that seems to bubble up here on TORn when things get tooooooo serious. No need for lemon-suckers. There's enough of that in real life! And I'm not accusing anyone in particular, please understand, including you Arannir. This is just a general feeling I seem to get when I start reading some of the more contentious threads.
Bottom line - it's a movie. This is a hobby - a wonderful, time-sucking, fantastic hobby. No one will die because the Balrog (may have) had wings or Smaug's scales were the "wrong" color.
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Heed WBA when building blanket forts.
ITLs don't get enough FAS. :)
Where there's life there's hope, and need of vittles.
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings
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DanielLB
Immortal
Feb 6 2015, 1:27pm
Post #16 of 130
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Then why didn't the Fellowship fly to Mordor? /
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(This post was edited by DanielLB on Feb 6 2015, 1:28pm)
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Arannir
Valinor
Feb 6 2015, 1:38pm
Post #17 of 130
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Shots have been fired, take out your Tolkien encylopedias 
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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Dame Ioreth
Tol Eressea
Feb 6 2015, 1:41pm
Post #18 of 130
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You just had to do it. You just HAD to do it!
 
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Heed WBA when building blanket forts.
ITLs don't get enough FAS. :)
Where there's life there's hope, and need of vittles.
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings
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Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal
Feb 6 2015, 1:42pm
Post #19 of 130
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I haven't seen the drinking game played on TORn for a long, long time. I haven't been on the Hobbit board much, but it sounds like it could use a few glugs.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories
leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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NottaSackville
Valinor
Feb 6 2015, 1:44pm
Post #20 of 130
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Galadrial wouldn't give permission for a flying dwarf to enter Lothlorien airspace //
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Happiness: money matters, but less than we think and not in the way that we think. Family is important and so are friends, while envy is toxic -- and so is excessive thinking. Beaches are optional. Trust is not. Neither is gratitude. - The Geography of Bliss by Eric Weiner as summarized by Lily Fairbairn. And a bit of the Hobbit reading thrown in never hurts. - NottaSackville
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NottaSackville
Valinor
Feb 6 2015, 1:47pm
Post #21 of 130
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Ohhh - I'm in! *Glug* *glug* *glug*
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It's awfully early for a drinking game here on the east coast, which means its AWFULLY early over there in the mountains.
But yeah, the hobbit board needs more congenial drinking :)
Happiness: money matters, but less than we think and not in the way that we think. Family is important and so are friends, while envy is toxic -- and so is excessive thinking. Beaches are optional. Trust is not. Neither is gratitude. - The Geography of Bliss by Eric Weiner as summarized by Lily Fairbairn. And a bit of the Hobbit reading thrown in never hurts. - NottaSackville
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Dame Ioreth
Tol Eressea
Feb 6 2015, 1:58pm
Post #22 of 130
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I could use another cup... 
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Heed WBA when building blanket forts.
ITLs don't get enough FAS. :)
Where there's life there's hope, and need of vittles.
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Feb 6 2015, 2:29pm
Post #23 of 130
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Perhaps it is a semantic point but I'm not sure there will be all that much distinction in many people's minds between posting negative things and negativism.
I should say that, of course, posting negative things is absolutely fine but it seems a little strange to post negatively but also to be concerned about being perceived to be posting negatively.
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Brethil
Half-elven
Feb 6 2015, 2:52pm
Post #24 of 130
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Well, the Balrog that lives on my garden (his name is Billy)
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Well, Billy says they just don't like doing what they are told. If the Fellowship REALLY wanted a ride to Mordor, the way to get it was to insist that they NOT be taken to Mordor, not at all, and certainly not flown to any Cracks of Doom. See, by Gandalf saying 'you shall not pass' it was just a given that the Balrog was going to push right by him. Purely oppositional thinking.
It took a while, but Billy is over any bad feeling about what happened to his cousin. He says he was never very nice at parties anyway, always doing rude things with that whip to the Balrogs sitting at the kid's table.
And yes, Billy has wings.
*GLUG*
(This post was edited by Brethil on Feb 6 2015, 2:52pm)
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Arannir
Valinor
Feb 6 2015, 3:08pm
Post #25 of 130
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... when critical points are interpretated as negative.
I do mind when people accuse me of doing it with an agenda behind it. As if I am posting just to be negative and spoiling it for others, often labelled hating , naysaying or negativism.
That is not my agenda at all and I think it isn't the agenda of 90% of people posting here that have a rather critical view.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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I'll just use coffee!
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